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Registered
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 786
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Pressure-Wave Supercharger (Comprex)
Folks,
Anyone have any experience with Pressure-Wave superchargers. A company by the name of Comprex made these. Based on what I've read they have the best features of both the turbo (does not require shaft power to compress the air) and supercharger (instant boost). It also does not have parts that rotate at very high speed. Here is an animated link on how it works: http://www.lms.ethz.ch/Res/PALOS/anim.html Here is a link with some simplified description: http://www.greenpeace.org/~climate/smile/tech/7pressure.html Seems like a great idea. I wonder why they are not more popular? ------------------ Tony '78 911SC |
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09-07-2001, 05:40 PM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 539
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Interesting concept, have you seen any real pictures of it? I still don't quite get how they seperate the exhaust gases with the inlet charge. Always glad to see new ideas anyway. Someone will come up with a "best of both worls" system some day.
------------------ Mark The Beast mark@hargett.com |
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09-08-2001, 01:45 AM
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Registered
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 786
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The following link has a photo of a cut-away view of the pressure-wave supercharger in a real engine. (scroll down, it is near the bottom of the page, or search in the page for keyword "comprex")
http://www.technolab.org/Hako/Katalog-e/Section9.htm I don't know how they keep the hot gas from mixing with the fresh air intake. Maybe it just doesn't have enough time to mix. Cool concept... ------------------ Tony '78 911SC |
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09-08-2001, 10:58 AM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Stuttgart FRG
Posts: 2,307
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Hello
The technology is quite old and had been used on Opel and Mazda Turbodiesel. The Comprex units where made by BBC. The system looks simple but has some problems with wide spread rev bands. Also many had long term problems but mostly caused by the coal build up on short distance drive. However I had seen Jaguar, Mercedes and Audi making tests with high potential engines ( The Jaguar was on display at the Frankfurt fair, the later where on display at constructors fair at the University Karlsruhe ). The hard edge was to jump over the restrictive backpressure from the catalyc converters and to "tune" the system. Comprex is still in research for the coming 2 stroke orbital engines. However the BBC joined with KKK ( now under Borg Warner ) and therefore is mainly interesstet to sale turbo units. Grüsse |
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09-08-2001, 05:17 PM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Stuttgart FRG
Posts: 2,307
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Hallo
Not very much on the net. SAE Puplication; 830143 Comparison of the 3-cylinder DI-diesel with turbocharger or Comprex-supercharger. ( This book is aviable in the stuttgart library and I preordered it ) http://www.saebr.org.br/Livraria/r-134.htm http://www.dterm.com/buick/super.htm http://www.fkw-hannover.de/viere.html Grüsse |
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09-09-2001, 01:53 PM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 539
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Roland, your depth of knowledge never ceases to amaze me.
------------------ Mark The Beast mark@hargett.com |
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09-09-2001, 02:57 PM
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B58/732
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Hot as Hell, AZ
Posts: 12,313
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Hmmm, how about a tuned pipe like they use on 2 cycle model airplane engines?
 ------------------ blue '81 SC Targa |
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09-09-2001, 04:51 PM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 539
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Blue, I think I hear wear you are going but I think the principal would not work the same with a 4 stroke. I used to race 2 stroke karts and I learned about it. One thing problem would be that 2 strokes, for peak performance, operate in a much narrower rpm range. To have the "echo" effect work properly throughout a complete rpm range would be very challenging.
------------------ Mark The Beast mark@hargett.com |
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09-09-2001, 06:18 PM
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B58/732
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Hot as Hell, AZ
Posts: 12,313
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Mark, near as I can tell, there are even worse problems. Like redirecting the pressure wave into the intake without it attenuating into oblivion. The more I think about it the more it's got me stumped. Those two strokers are so dirt simple it's almost criminal.
Hey, wait--how 'bout a two cycle F6? That should be good for an easy 600 NA hp out of 3 liters. To hell with the EPA!! One of the Polaris ex-employees (from their Victory dept) built a bike around a 750cc 2c. The sucker puts out over 160 HP. Must be fun. C'mon, guys. One of you out there has the machining skills to do this.  ------------------ blue '81 SC Targa |
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09-09-2001, 11:07 PM
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Team California
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Oh my God, what a concept! A two-stroke 911 motor with comprex in a pre-smog(<74) car! The oil tank could be the oil-injection system, etc... Imagine the sound!
Only problem would be that every ricer on earth would want one... still it should be done! |
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09-09-2001, 11:42 PM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Stuttgart FRG
Posts: 2,307
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Hello
The ETH engine had 400 cc and was intentet to be used as static load engine to drive a CVT or a electric hybrid car. Not sure about if the project is finished didn´t find anything about that in the library. Now the ETH is very capable and people like Einstein or F.Piech are relatet to it. Most famous was that they could make a teleportation some 5 years ago. If you really like to see a "blown" thing then how about a 1750 cc 600 HP rally engine ?  A other key to performance is IAPAC injection. Grüsse [This message has been edited by Roland Kunz (edited 09-13-2001).] |
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09-12-2001, 08:33 AM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 539
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Roland, what is IAPAC injection and what is that motor?
------------------ Mark The Beast mark@hargett.com |
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09-14-2001, 11:41 PM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Stuttgart FRG
Posts: 2,307
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Hello
This engine was made for World Rallye Group B cars ( to compete with the 959 or Ford RS 200 ) but as we know that class get stoped. Generaly it is a blown Apfelbeck design engine. ( Apfelbeck was the first to break the NA 150 HP/L barrier in the 50´s and made race engines for BMW ) http://www.abarth-lancia.de/ecv.html Now the IAPAC seems to be very scare in the internet. However it is a subform from the Orbital engine and most car companys work on different designs. Right now they start to test the engines on boats and industrial use. Those engines where covered under the Peugot company. What else ? AVL has a 4 valve two stroke and Subaru has a Chamberlain type under testing. Ford made allready 20 000 Orbital engines runing a long term test in the UK. http://www.orbeng.com.au/ -------------------------------------- Engine and Fuels Fitting to existing engines of the IAPAC two-stroke DI technology (compressed-air-assisted direct fuel injection), which offers an excellent performance to pollution abatement ratio Combustion process using self-ignition controlled by internal aerodynamics (FDCCP - Fluid Dynamically Controlled Combustion Process) Simplified DI system for pollution abatement of small two-stroke engines by the SCIP kit (Simplified Camless IAPAC) with automatic diaphragm actuation http://www.ifp.fr/TXT/AI/AI6322T2.html http://www.ifp.fr/TXT/AC51/BI5121T2.html Grüsse |
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09-16-2001, 08:48 AM
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