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True newbie engine drop
Well, I purchased my car (1983 911SC 3.0) from the US a couple of months ago as a project car and started working on upgrading bits and pieces.. it is completely stock..
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psnqiwm3lv.jpg I have now discovered this isn't good enough, so I will embark on a journey which is outside my comfort zone.. the car recently started making a tapping sound and I narrowed it down to the right side of the engine.. removed the valve cover but didn't see any broken headstuds.. no shavings on the plugs either.. either way, I think I will do a full rebuild.. I have no experience working on cars, except for a coilover install on a Mini Cooper I once owned, so this is a TRUE newbie engine drop. I plan on addressing all the main CIS issues, as well as all the oil leaks that exist virtually everywhere.. I would like to know this engine inside-out by the time I am done! No deadline set, and I will order parts as I go along which will delay the project as I live out in the Middle East and it takes 2 to 3 weeks for me to get stuff couriered without paying an arm and a leg :) To start off, I lifted the car using a low profile jack onto 6-ton jackstands. http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...pstr1fi7qm.jpg In order to make sure I can lower the engine safely, I did a lot of research and was about to purchase a scissor lift but then decided to get this (saved $$$) http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...pszdcm1mu7.jpg That is a 1000lbs furniture dolly which fits perfectly. I started by soaking the main oil line with lubricant over the past few days. Today I removed the rear bumper and emptied the oil. http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...pshqbaeg2w.jpg I will go through the checklist which I found here, as well as 101 Projects and Bentley as I go along. I have Waynes rebuilding book on the way as well. Once I have all the documentation, I will order the vital tools to make this project easier. Anyone have a required tool list handy? Any input at any time will be helpful.. you guys will be my main source of help and I say thank you in advance! :D |
Hi and welcome.
Unfortunately I do not have any advice to offer regarding the rebuild as I am yet to find a reason to do one on mine. However, I have the 101 and rebuild book and they are really very good. Along with this website/forum and the vast knowledge of the people that post on here you should manage it without any major issue. Good luck and please keep us up to date with your progress. Jason. |
I admire your guts to try this with a low level of mechanical experience. I guess many of us here started wrenching on things when we were 10 or younger. There are so many things you learn along the way. The most important thing is safety. The car is heavy as is the engine.
The first thing is to get the engine and transmission out of the car and on to a dolly of some sort. If you are working alone you might consider the jack the car up off the engine method. You have it in the air now and can get access to all the bits that need undoing. After everything is disconnected (except the mounts) you can lower the car until the front of the engine is well supported on your dolly and get in/under and disconnect the mounts. Then slowly raise the car a couple inches at a time on each side. I did it that way one time and the other reach up with a floor jack method. Both work but I thought raising the car was safer. Oh - another tip. Bag and tag groups of fasteners and parts as you remove them. At the time it seems perfectly clear what goes with what - months later it will not be so clear. I used moving boxes and put parts and bags together. There is probably a thread or two here somewhere with a list of what to do. Worth searching a bit. |
I've done four engines now and have a few tips. First is to memorize Wayne's book. It is excellent. Follow is carefully and you will do fine.
Second tip is to take many pictures from all angles of the drivetrain before removing ANYTHING! The 911 engine design is "layered" which means that things like wiring and plumbing and accessories gone on in layers. If you reverse the order of the layers you will find that things don't fit or are very tight. That's when you need the pre-teardown photos to go by. So take many digitals of the same engine areas but from different perspectives and angles. You will be glad you did! |
My third tip is to take Wayne's advice about cleanliness seriously. Especially true about gasket and seal surfaces.
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Thanks guys!
I spent the last couple of days planning and making sure I have all the right tools. First thing I did was ditch the pallet lift since it only went up 3 inches. I bought an (expensive) ATV lift instead. Not really spoiled for choices out here like you guys in the US ;) http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psjowk8g7q.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps0wbnriay.jpg I'll probably need to lower the car a couple of notches to get the engine and tranny to rest properly on the lift and dolly. Good thing I bought the lift plates which should make it easier to lift the car. I've done a lot of research and I am generally pretty neat. I bought bags and markers and have already started bagging and tagging and taking plenty of pics. I got through a lot today, summarized as follows: Removed the oil tank S pipe Removed the clutch lever assembly Removed the AC compressor Disconnected starter cables Removed heater hoses from heat exchangers Removed shift coupler Removed engine harness and MSD harness Disconnected O2 sensor Disconnected oil breather hoses Since I'm dropping both engine and tranny, do I still need to disconnect the reverse light switch and accelerator linkage? What I didn't do is remove the fuel lines since I'll leave those to the day I drop the engine. I recently replaced the accumulator and filter so those should be easy. What I couldn't do was the main oil line. That thing needs a bulldozer. I've been spraying it with lubricant for a few days but no use - I think I'll go out and get 2 large pipe wrenches and work it over. The plan is to have an experienced buddy of mine with me when I drop the engine, so hoping it'll be sometime this week. I think I am mostly there! After the engine is down, I'm planning a full rebuild along with a transmissions rebuild. Both are leaking pretty profusely. Rebuild vs recondition, not sure yet, but to me it seems a rebuild is more difficult but better in the long term. This is one of 3 weekend cars so I'm in no hurry. Pics! http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...pse923e20b.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps4e59c9cb.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps3679cfaf.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps7b13ad48.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psb48b0e15.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psf09243f3.jpg |
Thanks guys!
I spent the last couple of days planning and making sure I have all the right tools. First thing I did was ditch the pallet lift since it only went up 3 inches. I bought an (expensive) ATV lift instead. Not really spoiled for choices out here like you guys in the US ;) http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psjowk8g7q.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps0wbnriay.jpg I'll probably need to lower the car a couple of notches to get the engine and tranny to rest properly on the lift and dolly. Good thing I bought the lift plates which should make it easier to lift the car. I've done a lot of research and I am generally pretty neat. I bought bags and markers and have already started bagging and tagging and taking plenty of pics. I got through a lot today, summarized as follows: Removed the oil tank S pipe Removed the clutch lever assembly Removed the AC compressor Disconnected starter cables Removed heater hoses from heat exchangers Removed shift coupler Removed engine harness and MSD harness Disconnected O2 sensor Disconnected oil breather hoses Disconnected CV joints Since I'm dropping both engine and tranny, do I still need to disconnect the reverse light switch and accelerator linkage? What I didn't do is remove the fuel lines since I'll leave those to the day I drop the engine. I recently replaced the accumulator and filter so those should be easy. What I couldn't do was the main oil line. That thing needs a bulldozer. I've been spraying it with lubricant for a few days but no use - I think I'll go out and get 2 large pipe wrenches and work it over. The plan is to have an experienced buddy of mine with me when I drop the engine, so hoping it'll be sometime this week. I think I am mostly there! After the engine is down, I'm planning a full rebuild along with a transmissions rebuild. Both are leaking pretty profusely. Rebuild vs recondition, not sure yet, but to me it seems a rebuild is more difficult but better in the long term. This is one of 3 weekend cars so I'm in no hurry. Pics! http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...pse923e20b.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps4e59c9cb.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps3679cfaf.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps7b13ad48.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psb48b0e15.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psf09243f3.jpg |
It seems I have a cruise control unit which I also need to tackle, although nothing in the car indicates that I have the cruise control option
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psqxtgdwtu.jpg |
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Good luck! |
Alright, I was able to remove the cruise control cable which was easy enough, but anyone have any tips on how to remove the accelerator linkage without breaking or bending something? Its tight in there and cable end rotates but refuses to pop-off. Does it make a difference if I pull the engine side first or the tranmission side first?
Tomorrow is the big day, but first we will need to deal with the fuel lines, main oil line and reverse light. |
Todays updates:
1) Removed fuel lines 2) Disconnected the accelerator linkage from both engine and transmission 3) Disconnected the main fuel line with 2 huge wrenches 4) Disconnected the speed sensor cable from the front of the transmission This is where I am now, and I have 2 questions: 1) Under the transmission there is the sway bar. I haven't read that I need to remove it. Do most people remove it or just keep pulling the engine and transmission forward during the drop to get around it? (pic 3 below) 2) Tried to loosen the motor mounts but when I get the bolt to move the entire circle it sits on top off moves as well. Any tips on removing the motor and transmission mounts? Thats it, I don't think I forgot anything. Pics http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psv02hmtud.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps7zkxtrwl.jpg Sway bar right under the motor mounts http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psrgwv2l5o.jpg Accelerator linkage disconnected http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psusbj9k4r.jpg |
anyone?
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IMHO you have to remove the sway bar, as I do not believe you can get enough clearance at the rear of the car to "keep moving it back". I've always found that not having a full lift, and the car on jack stands requires a back-down-back-down type process, at which point you get hung up on the sway bar. There are six bolts (four on the brackets and two on the end which lead to the trailing arm linkages if I remember - not looking at my car right now. Those two last bolts have a lock nut of sorts (not sure if it is just lined with lock-tite or something similar, but make sure you put them back in the same way, inside to outside I think it is.
For the engine mounting bolts under the deck lid / engine lid, there are a couple of pieces, including the long bolt that screws into the cross member of the engine, and two washers, all of which fit through the engine mounts that are bolted by two bolts to the body itself. I'm not sure from your comment, as to which parts are actually moving. When you unbolt the large centre bolt that actually hold the one side of the motor up, then the remainder should stay fixed. If you say "the entire circle moves" I'm thinking it's one of the large washers you're referring to, which could be quite normal - they're about two inches wide. Make sure obvisouly that you are supporting the entire engine / transmission properly and have no real weight on the bolts - need to find the balance of "lifting the entire car" and simply removing the weight from the bolts. Make sure all the electrics at the back and left of the engine bay are disconnected, and as you lower it - look and look again, to ensure that nothing gets caught up under tension - including oil hoses at the rear right. Final comment refers to the "back-down" process, I had a friend of mine watching the "transmission shaft tunnel" to ensure I wasn't dropping the engine to much and causing the shaft to get hung up, small deliberate movement, down and aft are key. I not you have what looks like an ATV type jack system, and the car appears level, so that might actually make it easier than my jack system. Ensure you also have enough clearance at the rear end - can't recall the exact height, but it's based on with or without bumper on. Hope all works out - good luck. |
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I couldn't remove the 2 main bolts that hold the sway bar, now I know why. I'll try again today. As to the engine mounts, yes I was referring to the washer. I'll probably lower the car one notch on the jack stands to make sure that the ATV jack is supporting most of the weight and try again with the mounts. The plan is to have a friend lower the engine slowly while I look around and make sure nothing is caught. If the car isn't high enough, I'll jack it up from the sides (jack plates) until we have clearance. I'll post updates soon :) |
Glad it sounds promising. Thought of two additional points:
(1) in one of your pictures you refer to engine mounts above the sway bar - those are the transmission mounts - just for future accuracy and understanding; and (2) you said you removed the starter wires - did you also remove the large ground strap, I think the SC has it in the same place as my '84. Reference the stuck sway bar bolts - I actually replaced both bolts and nuts when I removed the sway bar the first time - not sure if it was required, but while they were off anyway... Also check the two acutal body mounts on the sway bar to ensure the welds are still solid - one of mine had broken off the body and the other had a crack - there's a lot of spray type insulation I think it is, so fixing it can be problematic if you don't want to ignite the bottom of the car :eek: Look forward to hearing your progress. |
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I checked the mounts and everything seems to be in order. No damage of any kind. I'll take pics and post them incase you guys can spot something I can't. I plan on replacing alot of things in this car other than the nuts and bolts, but will do it on a priority basis. If I get done with the engine, then I might move to the oil lines and cooler, then the suspension, etc. 6 hours to go til we start working on dropping it :D |
My next task is the front oil cooler, to install the newest radiator type with electric fan. Tired of watching the thermostat climb in German Stau (traffic jam) in 30+ degrees.
I expect you're getting butterflies. Keeping my fingers crossed that all goes smoothly. As previously mentioned, if something doesn't feel or look right, STOP! and think it through - you don't want to damage anything and as you said, it's not a race.SmileWavy |
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Success!
You can see my sexy thighs checking the transmission clearance during the drop SmileWavy http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psbd979a4b.jpg Almost there! Used the ATV jack and dolly to stabilize the engine and the low profile jack for the transmission. http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps1f48448b.jpg Then I used the jack plates to lift the car a couple of inches until the engine was out. We did it slowly and kept checking to see if anything was snagged. Luckily, it went very smoothly. http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps659d9b78.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps2725df1e.jpg Once out we removed the transmission and clutch assembly http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...ps4d0b9084.jpg http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...psd0a3741e.jpg The engine stand mount needs a little modification so hopefully that will be done tomorrow and I'll be able to get it on the engine stand to start the teardown. The 2 areas which were tricky were 1) To get the transmission out we had to pull the engine out slowly as we lowered both the engine and transmission. 2) The engine mount cross bar broke when we were trying to open the right side bolt (clearly seen in 3rd pic). Once we got the engine out, we noticed the left one broke at some point in the past and was welded back on. My car has a history of very strange owners apparently. Otherwise it was smooth sailing! Thanks to everybody who gave me input and help. I'll start a new thread soon in the rebuild forum :D |
Keep the engine thread here. The rebuild forum does not get much traffic.
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