Birth of a Porsche Wheel

[group 4 wheels]

Hi All,

My name is Jonathan Sage and I'm the owner of a small specialist company here in the UK called Group 4 Wheels (group4wheels.com), we specialize in "reviving historic rally, road and track motorsport wheels".

We're manufacturing a 7, 8 & 9 x 15" low pressure die cast aluminum wheel that by the looks of it would be of great interest to the Porsche fraternity.

I've attached some CAD and technical drawing for your perusal.

I hope I can post up here and not offend anyone? What I'd like to do over the next couple of months is take you on a journey where you would see this wheel go from concept/design through the various stages of production to finished artcle.


Regards

Jonathan

[hcoles]

interesting - I would like to see CAD stress analysis also if designed for various bolt circles. Many of us here may be more interested in 16" and 17".

[Pyregrine]

nice looking, I would be more interested in seeing a 16 produced to fit Porsche cars. Looks to be a good start though!

[group 4 wheels]

Originally Posted by hcoles

interesting - I would like to see CAD stress analysis also if designed for various bolt circles. Many of us here may be more interested in 16" and 17".

FEA (finite element analysis) has been carried out on the 8", 7 & 9 " should be complete at the end of the week.

Anything in particular you'd like to know?


REgards

Jonathan

[Shaun @ Tru6]

16 and 17 please. no tires available for wide 15s.

[esample]

There are these:

Hoosier A6

I'd be interested in 9 x 15s.

-esample

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by group 4 wheels

FEA (finite element analysis) has been carried out on the 8", 7 & 9 " should be complete at the end of the week.

Anything in particular you'd like to know?


REgards

Jonathan

Just curious re. assumed worst case loading and resulting stress in relation to material strength, probably in the world of wheel design a certain factor of safety is used. I assume the people here would be curious how your analysis compares to a Fuchs factory wheel and material. Please provide the weight, most CAD systems can give volume. Also re. bolt pattern was wondering what range of bolt circles can be machined in or if the design is only for a certain bolt circle. Thx.

[group 4 wheels]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

16 and 17 please. no tires available for wide 15s.

Bigger sizes are in the pipeline.

Originally Posted by hcoles

Just curious re. assumed worst case loading and resulting stress in relation to material strength, probably in the world of wheel design a certain factor of safety is used. I assume the people here would be curious how your analysis compares to a Fuchs factory wheel and material. Please provide the weight, most CAD systems can give volume. Also re. bolt pattern was wondering what range of bolt circles can be machined in or if the design is only for a certain bolt circle. Thx.

Weight for 8" is 7.4kg which is competitive for a period motorsport product, this is for the road version, a circuit only version will be available at 7kg. The load rating for the 8" is 500kgf (kilo gram force). Bolt patterns available are from 4 x 95.5 to 5 x 130.


Regards

Jonathan

[eimkeith]

neat - looks like the old Campagnolos?

[group 4 wheels]

Originally Posted by eimkeith

neat - looks like the old Campagnolos?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

do you any idea on pricing?

could you do Lancia Stratos wheels with Porsche lug spacing?

[group 4 wheels]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

do you any idea on pricing?

could you do Lancia Stratos wheels with Porsche lug spacing?

I know the pricing for all 3 sizes but I don't want to upset anyone here "selling" so to speak. Would it be OK to post prices, can someone let me know?

Regarding Stratos wheels, as with any wheel, it's all about numbers. Stratos is 8 & 12", at a guess I'd say you want 9 & 11's?


Regards

Jonathan

[agrimmitt]

Jonathan;
You will have interest in many of these "older style" rally/race wheels. Price and current or available size's are the key factors, tires are very hard to find for anything 15" unless you go to a race tire. Even then the sizes are very limited, and freight or VAT is and will be a deal maker or breaker in many cases. But yes, many would and will be interested.
Also the UK has had some issue's with members being ripped off!! So, pricing and photo's, along with a phone number to talk real time are a must!Hope to see more, I'm currently pricing a set of MiniLite 16x7 and 16x9 for a car.
Thx
art
agrimmitt@pelican
swimriderun.trail@verizon.net
6/27 Mon 9:45am pst>CA

[group 4 wheels]

QUOTE=agrimmitt;6103070]Jonathan;
You will have interest in many of these "older style" rally/race wheels. Price and current or available size's are the key factors, tires are very hard to find for anything 15" unless you go to a race tire. Even then the sizes are very limited, and freight or VAT is and will be a deal maker or breaker in many cases. But yes, many would and will be interested.
Also the UK has had some issue's with members being ripped off!! So, pricing and photo's, along with a phone number to talk real time are a must!Hope to see more, I'm currently pricing a set of MiniLite 16x7 and 16x9 for a car.
Thx
art
agrimmitt@pelican
swimriderun.trail@verizon.net
6/27 Mon 9:45am pst>CA[/QUOTE]

Hi Art,

Tyre availability up to and including 9" (just) is OK, above that then yes it does become a problem which is why there will be larger (16's, 17's, possibley both) options available after the 15".

I don't think you can make out my address on the technical drawing, it also has a contact number.

Jonathan Sage

Group 4 Wheels

17 St. Michael's Crescent
Pinner
Middlesex
HA5 5LE
United Kingdom
+44 (0) 208 868 1868 land line
+44 (0) 7971 988 735

I'm in now should anyone want to call?

You will see over the comming couple of months that like you, I'm a "Petrolhead"! You will see the wheel go through it's gestation and I will earn your trust.

If a moderator does not like me posting up prices will you please delete this part of this post?

The following prices are for 15's. As we are a relatively new and small company there is NO tax to be added. All prices are in £ sterling.

7" - £235 each
8" - £250 each
9" - £275 each

Wheels are made in UK and are guarenteed for all race/rally applications.

All prices are plus shipping via Fedex.


Regards

Jonathan

[Shaun @ Tru6]

These are good prices. If you can do:

8x9x16
8x9.5x16 (my preference)
8x9x17

I'd be interested in any of these combinations with proper offset to fit a standard rear 8 inch flare.

[euro911sc]

I am very interested in watching this process There was another thread about wheel making a few years ago when Jeff Alton did a forged 17 Fuch center for 3 piece wheels. That was really cool to see the different stages of the wheel at the manufacturer's facility.

As a mechanical eng. once upon a time I am interested in the load specs. When you say 500kpf what does that mean really? I assume in the FEA you hold the bolt centers fixed. Then you have to apply the force. It is the location of application of that force that I'm curious about. Also, when you do this do you spin the wheel around and check at different angles to the bolt pattern? I'll understand if you feel this info is trade secret, but it would be really cool to learn how this is done. Also, will you be destructive testing to verify that the computer results match real life?

In terms of posting I believe its fine, but you can contact Wayne to be sure.

Best regards,

Michael

[euro911sc]

Oh yeah, 1 request is to make the Porsche wheels use the cupped lug seats. Apparently there were some wheel guys (Rial for 1) in the 70's/80's that used their own lug styles. Now those wheels are useless unless you can find the nuts.

Another idea is to offer unfinished wheels at less $. A lot of us like to finish in our own styles and its sometimes a pain to prep the wheel after its been previously finished

-Michael

[JmuRiz]

Looks cool...when I first saw the picture I was thinking "Why is he posting a picture of DeTomaso Mangusta wheels?"

Then I noticed the bolt pattern...

[group 4 wheels]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

These are good prices. If you can do:

8x9x16
8x9.5x16 (my preference)
8x9x17

I'd be interested in any of these combinations with proper offset to fit a standard rear 8 inch flare.

Hi Shaun,

Noted.

Originally Posted by euro911sc

I am very interested in watching this process There was another thread about wheel making a few years ago when Jeff Alton did a forged 17 Fuch center for 3 piece wheels. That was really cool to see the different stages of the wheel at the manufacturer's facility.

As a mechanical eng. once upon a time I am interested in the load specs. When you say 500kpf what does that mean really? I assume in the FEA you hold the bolt centers fixed. Then you have to apply the force. It is the location of application of that force that I'm curious about. Also, when you do this do you spin the wheel around and check at different angles to the bolt pattern? I'll understand if you feel this info is trade secret, but it would be really cool to learn how this is done. Also, will you be destructive testing to verify that the computer results match real life?

In terms of posting I believe its fine, but you can contact Wayne to be sure.

Best regards,

Michael

Hi Michael,

No secrets here, I'll post up the FEA reports for all wheels for everyone to see, should be towards the end of the week.

Originally Posted by euro911sc

Oh yeah, 1 request is to make the Porsche wheels use the cupped lug seats. Apparently there were some wheel guys (Rial for 1) in the 70's/80's that used their own lug styles. Now those wheels are useless unless you can find the nuts.

Another idea is to offer unfinished wheels at less $. A lot of us like to finish in our own styles and its sometimes a pain to prep the wheel after its been previously finished

-Michael

We will only supply these Porsche fitment so original lugs can be used.


Regards

Jonathan

[agrimmitt]

Jonathan:
Thank you for the follow up and general answers to what we all know as the real world>available tire sizes vs performance or fit. I currently have custom 17" Fuchs made with BBS hoops in 7.5/9/5x17 that I run on the street due to tire availability. Along with the fact I still love the look of the Fuchs wheel. I had Gary Stratton build them for me in Florida. But I would be interested in a set should I not find (which I now told are avaliable) the 16x9 Minilites. Keep me in the loop and send me an email when you ready to move forward with them.
Thx and good luck!
art
agrimmitt@pelican
swimriderun.trail@verizon.net
6/28 Tues 9pm pst>CA
805-570-4103