Early car dilemma - Opinions sought!

[Jim Richards]

I have identified two possible cars to buy but I'm struggling with the decision. While I'm agonizing over the choice, I'd sure appreciate your opinions. Here's what I'm looking at:

Car #1 - 72T MFI coupe, one owner with records, AC, excellent condition, engine rebuild in last 15-20k miles, ~ 120k miles

Car #2 - 73.5T CIS coupe, two owner with records, AC, excellent condition, ~ 60k miles, sport seats

Both cars are the same exterior / interior color combination and both are priced similarly (the 72T is a bit more).

My dilemma boils down to MFI (plus more recent freshening up of the engine) vs. factory sport seats. I wish I could have both. So, it's either Car #1, Car #2, or back to the hunt! Thanks in advance for your inputs.

[jluetjen]

I vote for the MFI coupe. It just opens up all sorts of opportunities for future builds right up to a 2.7 RS clone. Besides, the MFI will just sound soooo much better at WOT! It also looks a lot cooler in the engine compartment.

[Jim T]

Isn't the answer in your signature?

[marc weintraub]

Hi Jim,

How much are these cars? You might be riding a fine line between a "T" or an "E" with the same options.

On to the quesion at hand. I like the 72 for the fact that it has the one year feature of the oil filler behind the passenger door... it also was the last year for the chrome bumperettes. This car, as you stated, recently had an engine rebuild. I like the MFI, so that would never be an issue for me if it is running correctly. As an aside, you will not want to build out a "T" engine to much of anything else... certainly not an RS because the core engine would need too many things making it cost prohibitive. The best car to use would be a 2.4 "S" engine for this task.

The 73 has the sport seats and low mileage, but that doesn't mean the engine is OK. Has the clunkier bumperettes (I know... I have a 73"S") and CIS. I am not very well versed on the CIS, so someone else could probably give you better feedback.

All things equal, I would go for the 72 and keep my eyes open for a pair of sport seats. One thing however; have both cars checked out carefully by a Porsche mechanic that knows early cars (MFI and CIS) and a body shop that works/restores these cars and knows the problem spots (rust areas). Your choice might be made that much easier. Again, I would like to know what the prices are on these cars and would love to see some pictures.

All The Best (& good luck with this),

Marc

[Early_S_Man]

Jim,

Go with the MFI car ... fundamentally more fun to drive, believe me! You can always change seats later ... not so easy for the F.I. system!

The sport seats are beautiful, and nice, and have a strong esthetic appeal, but I have survived 24.5+ years without them, and really don't think it was much of a sacrifice! Given the alternative of the music and visceral thrill of MFI ... vs nice-looking seats ... well, I have never heard of sport seats generating a thrill that runs all the way up the spine to your brain, and making you smile from ear-to-ear!

[Fishcop]

My 2c also runs with others.... Go the MFI and look for the seats. I've got the 69T and would have loved MFI, and I found sport seats after 6 months of casual looking.

[DByers]

My vote also goes to the 72 with MFI even if it had eggcrates for seats.

[pwd72s]

MFI...MFI...MFI

[MMARSH]

I think the choice is clear. If I see any Sport seats for sale, I'll let ya know.

[JSDSKI]

I bought a 72 911T November 2001 and my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner. The MFI cars are exceptional. They really provide a unique feel that is unlike any other car you've owned. Properly tuned, they are completely civilized and can handle any kind of rush hour traffic.... I regularly drive one in LA.

And when there is open road.... well, you're just gonna increase grin time!

[nostatic]

depends on what you're going to do with it. If you're thinking of putting a 3.6 in it, go with the CIS car (less money, lower miles). But if I were you, I would go with the '72 in a heartbeat assuming it is clean and straight. If/when I get an early car, it will either be MFI or Webers. I drove a modded T that was sooooo much fun. While the grunt of the big engine is great, the scream of the smaller flat 6 is too cool for words.

[cegerer]

No question. Rebuilt motor + MFI + 1 Owner = The 72. The mileage difference is irrelevant for 30 year old cars. The sport seats? You could always buy a set of the inexpensive replicas to get by with!

60,000 on the 73, eh. Do the documents verify this? That's incredibly low.

Also, what about paint? Original or respray on each?

-- Curt

[chuckw951]

Originally posted by pwd72s
MFI...MFI...MFI

I too like the '72 model because it doesn't have the "bumperettes." The oil tank filler on the outside is interesting I guess, though I wonder if Bruce A's comment in the Market update created some of the facination with this feature.

I'm not sure what is wrong with the CIS injection system. Everyone seems to bash it in favor of MFI. Perhaps MFI has better throttle response, but I think that system would be more expensive to maintain and/or rebuild. A whole used CIS setup is under $500. After a number of miles the MFI system needs to be rebuilt as do the related components. Apparently there's one guy that really knows these things in the Bay Area. I'm sure he does a good job, but with MFI rebuilds and upgrades starting at $1000 that's not cheap.

I had MFI in my 69 911E. I considered rebuilding that motor and explored reconditioning the MFI. I looked around and didn't find much info about how to adjust and tune the system. Apparently there isn't one screw to adjust the idle, rather one adjusts each of the throttle bodies. Plus the injection rod things need some sort of special tool/protractor to adjust. I talked to Gus about reconditioning the MFI and he was several months behind. Apparently the word is out among early 911 and BMW 2002tii owners that he's the man. Though I did see an add the other day in a P-car magazine that offered MFI rebuilds...can't remember the company.

So when I decided to hot rod my car I looked at a variety of options and decided on a 3.0 motor with CIS. Used CIS parts are cheap. This motor in an early car should offer some nice performance (once the project is complete!) and I do prefer FI to CARBs.

Converting a '72 T MFI motor to a 2.7 RS spec motor would be big time expensive and I don't think many components besides the case and the MFI could be reused. Even then, the MFI would need to be recalibrated to RS specs. Could the heads be reused? I'm not sure, seems like the RS or S motor would have different sized valves and combustion chamber. The P&Cs would definitely need to be replaced.

Of course someone that is looking to build an RS replica wouldn't be worried about these type of things, price is no object right?

Buying a 73.5 T with CIS might be the way to go, depends on what you are looking for. The CIS system is a good system. The SC world domination group can attest to that right?

I suppose the question that Jim needs to think about is the question we all ask ourselves, which is "how do I plan to use this car, how much do I want to spend, and what upgrades do I want to make down the road."

If I were looking for better throttle response it wouldn't be a question of the injection systems, but rather of displacement, cams, CR, heads, valve size and other the other goodies....which interestingly are present in other early cars...if I go looking for another original early car I think it would have to be an Early S. The T's just don't seem to get as much respect for some reason. And I'm not knocking early T owners by any stretch, but the truth is the Early S's seem to get all of the attention.

Sorry to ramble, but I've had this argument with myself before

Chuck

[chuckw951]

One last comment about the rebuilt motor. Everyone has a different defintion of what it means to rebuild a motor. The more detail the better. The rebuild could have been a valve job and seals or it could have been a complete rebuild with new P&Cs, split the case, machine the heads, cams, etc. etc. Documentation and a reputable wrench is everything, especially when it comes time to sell the car. Lord knows these pelican heads will want to see every receipt and the credentials of the people that worked on the car. Heaven help you if it's a motor meister motor.

Chuck

[Jim Richards]

Originally posted by pwd72s
MFI...MFI...MFI

Yeah...this is what my gut has been telling me. I think if I can work out a deal on this car I may end up taking Curt's suggestion about aftermarket seats or I'll look for a used set of sport seats in the future.

Thanks everyone for the great advice.