911SC Alignment report - opinions/thoughts

armand80sc · 09-04-2014, 02:40 PM

My 911 sc recently had an alignment and I wanted to get the opinion of the more learned members of the board.
Car is euro height running standard 205/55/16 front and 225/50/16 back.
Only street driven.
Any thoughts and opinions on the report would be appreciated.

Driven97 · 09-04-2014, 02:49 PM

How you didn't pay a lot for that, all they touched was your front toe. 5 minutes tops.

That little bit if rear toe out is out of spec. Might make it feel a bit wandery on the freeway, maybe even a little dicey left hand turns near the limit.

armand80sc · 09-04-2014, 03:18 PM

Thanks for your comments. Will that cause increased wear on the tyres?
Any thoughts on the camber settings?

wildcat077 · wildcat077's Garage

They sure didn't make a big effort to match the settings from left to right ...
If i were you,i'd look for a better shop next time around !

Cheers
Phil

Driven97 · 09-04-2014, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armand80sc

Thanks for your comments. Will that cause increased wear on the tyres?
Any thoughts on the camber settings?

Looks like you should get low tire wear. The front toe in will give you freeway straight-line stability as a tradeoff of a hair faster wear. Good trade.

Personally, I like a little camber F&R, even on a street only car. 1-2 degrees isn't going to cause too uneven of wear, and it makes a nice improvement on handling. -.5 F / -1.0R would be ideal, imho. Even if you'd rather stick in the factory spec for camber, I'd rather it be even side to side.

If you were to fix anything, I would recommend getting rid of that rear right toe out. That controls power down (not a big deal on a street car) but also stability. An ass backwards car like the 911 shouldn't have rear stability removed with toe out.

Trackrash · Trackrash's Garage

The front camber is a bit much. You will notice that the spec is basically 0 deg camber in the front. You have about 1 deg negative camber in the front. That may be because you have lowered the car. As you lower a 911 the front tires will have more negative camber. It may be that the adjustment for your front struts are maxed out, and 1 degree negative is as good as it can be. For a car driven aggressively this may not be a problem. For a car driven only on the freeway it may cause the front tires to wear more on the inside of the tread.
Did the "tech" talk to you? Did he say he couldn't get any more adjustment, and had to settle for 1 degree negative?
I agree with what others have said, it doesn't look like they adjusted the camber at all, just the front toe.
As far as the rear goes, doesn't look like they did any adjustment. And the toe should have been adjusted, since it is out of spec.
How does the car drive now? I suspect a little unstable and perhaps darty.

TimT · 04:33 PM

If you feel OK having paid someone to align your car, who returns it to you with 3 of 5 parameter out of spec, then its all good...

Did the shop let you know they were unable to get the front caster/camber within specs? did they mention the could not align the rear?

What your data shows is is the shop doesn't have a clue how to align a 911... They only touched front toe..

Many modern alignment benches have step by step instructions with black and white photos, arrow, pictograms of tools needed to align most every but the most obscure car...

The small differences between the "initial" and "final" are just errors in the system... ie settling the car etc..

You align a car from the rear first.... align the rear wheels, thrust, move to the front.... sometimes with a really twisted car... it may take a few iterations to get it right or find out why the car cannot be aligned...

Whoever did your alignment took the east way out, and only touched one adjustment...

Front toe.

That is a chain tire shop managers mantra "set the toe and let it go"

all for 69.99

armand80sc · 09-04-2014, 05:12 PM

Thank you for all the helpful comments.
I discussed the issues raised by you all. Was informed by them that these were the best settings they could get and they did try to get as close to spec as possible. In terms of driving, I can say it is an improvement from before and feels generally ok to drive.

Driven97 · 09-04-2014, 05:35 PM

Take a look at your front strut tops. To change front camber and caster you have to loosen the three cap bolts on each. It'll be pretty obvious if they even tried.

TimT · 09-04-2014, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Was informed by them that these were the best settings they could get and they did try to get as close to spec as possible.

They sold you some BS and your OK with it... fine...There is no way a full 4 wheel alignment will come back with numbers identical to the before numbers...

They adjusted only one of many parameters, again... you asked, That shop has no business doing 4 wheel alignments.... since it is obvious that they only adjust one parameter...

69-912-swt · 09-04-2014, 06:01 PM

Where was your alignment done at ?? Tire store or Race Shop or Porsche dealership ??
Makes a world of difference, I had my 87 Carrera done at the local dealership, alignment tech had almost 30yrs of doing only Porsche's. He took almost 2hrs to do mine. A Porsche Dealer will have the best alignment machines for our cars !!

TimT · 09-04-2014, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Take a look at your front strut tops.

Untouched...

armand80sc · 09-04-2014, 08:21 PM

Here are the front strut tops:

armand80sc · 09-04-2014, 08:22 PM

TimT is right they look pretty untouched to me.
It was done at an indep garage that deals with lot of porsches, so I am pretty surprised. Yeah I agree with you TimT, lesson learned. I will go to an official Porsche dealership and get it done there.
Will that hard plastic looking material have to be removed by me beforehand in order to for the camber settings to be manipulated by the alignment tech?

afterburn 549 · 09-05-2014, 01:43 AM

Not trying to flame , just some elementary fact.
With corner balance comes wheel alignment and usually visa versa.
It is just numbers and some strings. several sets of bathroom scales and or buy a digital set.
Balance and alignment in my opinion is like kissing your G.F.
You should do it. No one else.

targa80 · targa80's Garage

I just had my alignment done on my 80SC and I went to a shop on Long Island that was recommended by members on this forum. My ride height is just a tad lower than euro spec and I am very happy with the results. My understanding is that a full alignment would take between 2~3 hours at a cost of ~$400. It did take the shop about 2-1/2 hours of time at the cost with tax just over the $400 mark.

Here are the specs from my alignment and by the way I was able to observe from a distance the alignment and they did loosen and tighten the shock mount bolts in the front along with some other issues they took care of. Not knowing the criticality of the specs some of the readings are out of the spec's min & max values. Since the car is not setup for the original US specs and I was told that the car is setup properly for the ride height and the car drives great I am not concerned. I feel the shop I dealt with has a reputation for quality work based on the types of cars they had in their shop from other customers and the recommendation from other Pelicans on this site.

I believe the 84 is a typo on the top of the page since all the other info indicated a 1980.

schoward · 09-05-2014, 07:46 AM

targa80

With that F camber setting (-1), do you get any steering wheel shake on the freeway? I ask because I am at same setting and at euro height. Around town great but highway I get a little steering wheel shake above 60 mph or so. Like yours, car drives great but trying to see if my wheel shake is alignment or tire/balance related. I had alignment and new tires/balance all at same time so trying to rule something out before I pay for a re-alignment I don't need.

I had thought a little extra camber may cause tires to ride on inside edge a little resulting in the high speed wheel shake but now not so sure...

Perhaps my tires or balancing job just stinks.

Thanks

targa80 · targa80's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by schoward

targa80

With that F camber setting (-1), do you get any steering wheel shake on the freeway? I ask because I am at same setting and at euro height. Around town great but highway I get a little steering wheel shake above 60 mph or so. Like yours, car drives great but trying to see if my wheel shake is alignment or tire/balance related. I had alignment and new tires/balance all at same time so trying to rule something out before I pay for a re-alignment I don't need.

I had thought a little extra camber may cause tires to ride on inside edge a little resulting in the high speed wheel shake but now not so sure...

Perhaps my tires or balancing job just stinks.

Thanks

Schoward,

I drove the car for about 3 hours after getting the alignment (I have not driven the car since 2002). I took a run along a curvy road (25A) heading east. Eventually, I got onto The Long Island expressway (LIE) and opened her up to about 85 MPH (max on Odometer) and it felt smooth all the way, no shake or shutter it tracked nicely down the road. I was told by the shop that the 1 degree of camber would be correct for the ride height and slight aggressive driving on curvy roads and not add any issue to tire wear over time. I had just recently changed the ball joints on the front before the reinstall of the front end and alignment.

Driven97 · 09-05-2014, 08:53 AM

Targa 80 now that's a quality alignment.

For those who haven't done it, the rear of a 911 is a total PITA to align. Cammed bolts to twist or pull the banana arm, that cross talk, and require a couple of extra bolts to loosen / re-tighten each time between measures. Usually takes a few tries, too. That's why it costs so much.

Front is a piece of cake.

schoward · 09-05-2014, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by targa80

Schoward,

I drove the car for about 3 hours after getting the alignment (I have not driven the car since 2002). I took a run along a curvy road (25A) heading east. Eventually, I got onto The Long Island expressway (LIE) and opened her up to about 85 MPH (max on Odometer) and it felt smooth all the way, no shake or shutter it tracked nicely down the road. I was told by the shop that the 1 degree of camber would be correct for the ride height and slight aggressive driving on curvy roads and not add any issue to tire wear over time. I had just recently changed the ball joints on the front before the reinstall of the front end and alignment.

Thanks - And sorry to hijack.

I have not seen any issue with tire wear either and car tracks straight. Front susp was gone through and new control arm and turbo tie rods/struts installed in prior years. Thanks. Tells me its likely the cheap tires or balancing job when tires mounted. Thus, I will not go down and just request a new alignment.