extrude hone is it worth it????

[KCPSG]

I was reading all the posts, and I see that there is a 5 - 10 hp gain and a 25% increase to each cylinder, and the air flow increase is more even vs a non-extrude honed manifold.
My question is, is the $620 + shipping worth the gains or are there other things that I could do that would give me the hp gains for around the same money?

I am already getting SSI's and hopefully MB911's muffler, and I am changing the Autothority chip to Steve Wongs.

[jbrinkley]

spend the money and then let me know phil
bump

[strokher racing]

You might want to read my post on extrude hone before you do anything! Problems with extrude hone

[efhughes3]

Strokhe: Isn't your problem with a particular company? I think the question here is extrude honing as a process.

[strokher racing]

I had problems with extrude hone in California. The problems I had were beyond pathetic, and prooved they had no ethics at all. Extrude hone is the company that will be doing it I assume they pretty much have a monopoly on the process. Ask 10 different tuners on this and they will all have different opinions. The only thing that was common between all vies is that "NONE" of them had flow numbers after they had sent stuff to extrude hone to verify anything on a flow bench. No matter what do not send heads to them.

[Carrera3.5L]

No problem with Extrude Hone in California for me. Ed Melendez was very easy to deal with.

5-7 flywheel horsepower gain is all that can be expected. Do a search, I've talked about this in the past.

Ralph

[randywebb]

Do you have a stock 3.2L? My understanding is that is what really benefits, and that it balances the cylinder to cylinder air flow -- a problem on those engines.

Post on Rennlist and see if Steve Wiener will answer for you.

[strokher racing]

Ed is who I dealt with. The way they handled there mistake with me was horrible. They were a member of the bbb. They did not even respond to the letters the bbb sent to them. Needless to say they have a mark on there bbb record from me. Steve Weiner is a shop I contacted and he would not give any flow numbers as he said they were "secret". 5-7 hp for 600 bucks is the worst bang for the buck I have ever seen even if it did give you that power.

[strokher racing]

If you do choose to do this I would go with the PA branch. In my posts I had tons of bad stories, but most seemed happy with PA.

[KCPSG]

strokher racing; I did read that thread, and I would not deal w/them for having this done, If I were to have this done I would go w/the PA shop, or I would call Steve Wiener to see what he has to offer.
This is a stock 3.2L other than the autothority chip and K&N air filter (which should not have been mentioned) LOL but as of now I am having no problems w/the motor and I am reluctant to go tearing into it for a full rebuild and adding pistons and doing valvework etc etc.
I was just looking for input to see if the guys that had it done thought that it was worth it, or maybe my money could be spent better elsewhere.

[H20911]

No!!! puny gain in hp lost in torque. really a bad idea.

[350HP930]

All the process is good for is smoothing passages by removing casting roughness. If your passages are not really rough then the results will be negligible.

To think that it can even out uneven flow through a manifold is wishful thinking.

[cstreit]

$100 per horsepower is pretty standard on a 911 though...

[randywebb]

Well, I would like to see some data. Either dyno data or flow bench data ("I'm easy"). In the absence of data, I'll go for expert opinion. I think Steve Weiner qualifies there.

The technique uses an abrasive "mud" similar to oil well drilling compounds. It will remove surface roughness (not always a good thing). Before the technique existed, my understanding is that people used to slit the manifolds, clean them up manually, and then weld them back together.

If you have anything other than opinion on whether it will or will not help sig'ly with uneven flow, post it. I personally don't care as I am fully Weberized. But people who are considering the technique can benefit from knowing how reliable the information is that they are getting.

[350HP930]

Here is the theory of why its not likely to help with evening flow.

The mud is flowing through the manifold like a very viscous fluid.

Therefore the mud will flow unevenly through the manifold just like the airflow would.

This means that already high flowing ports would be ported more than the slow flowing cylinders which is more likely to aggravate the problem than correct it.

Then again this corrolation is not guaranteed since the flow dynamics are different between sucking a fluid through an intake port and pushing the flow in through the throttle port.

Thats the reason why I say its wishful thinking to say it will correct flow balance. All it can be guaranteed to do is remove roughness along the flow path the sludge takes.

[KCPSG]

as per rennsport systems.....

Airflow comparisons from 3.2 Carrera Stock vs Flowed Intake Manifolds

Cylinder Stock Airflow cfm Flowed Airflow cfm
#1 277 351
#2 280 349
#3 280 351
#4 295 351
#5 286 349
#6 289 352


1st # is stock cfm 2nd is honed...it evens the flow up quite a bit vs the stock ... Now I understand that this does not have favorable results in a CIS engine


but back to my original ? are people who have done this happy??? was it money well spent or could my $$ go someplace more productive?



PS. also from rennsport systems....

3.2 Carrera's also respond to some intake manifold modifications due to the uneven airflow characteristics of the OEM manifolds. The stock Carrera's intake manifold runners are well known for unequal airflow and there are some great gains to be made here that translate into more power, greater smoothness and better drivability from each cylinder receiving the same quantity of air and fuel.

[strokher racing]

those numbers are not even close to the flow numbers that the PA branch of extrude hone gave me. Interesting thing is how people speak of how un even the flow is but I know 3 people who have flowed the stock intake and this was not true. I would not spend the money on the extrude hone especially on a low hp motor. Steve Weiner told me the flow data results were secret so I chose not to go through him.

[350HP930]

I have been thinking about building a flow test device and checking my carrera manifold. If and when I do I will certainly post the results.

[H20911]

a little balance is good as for making the ports bigger not always good and on the street most of the time bad. not a good Idea.....more to the point, money not well spent.

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by randywebb
Well, I would like to see some data. Either dyno data or flow bench data ("I'm easy"). In the absence of data, I'll go for expert opinion. I think Steve Weiner qualifies there.

The technique uses an abrasive "mud" similar to oil well drilling compounds. It will remove surface roughness (not always a good thing). Before the technique existed, my understanding is that people used to slit the manifolds, clean them up manually, and then weld them back together.

If you have anything other than opinion on whether it will or will not help sig'ly with uneven flow, post it. I personally don't care as I am fully Weberized. But people who are considering the technique can benefit from knowing how reliable the information is that they are getting.

Here's some real data for you, rather then a bunch of opinions and theories:

Before and After CFM on my 3.2L plenums:

#1 - 197/322 +125 CFM gain
#2 - 313/335 +22 CFM gain
#3 - 227/331 +104 CFM gain
#4 - 197/348 +151 CFM gain
#5 - 313/339 +26 CFM gain
#6 - 233/335 +102 CFM gain

On Andial's engine dyno, extrude honing 3.2L plenums made a 5-7 flywheel horsepower difference at the top end. It really didn't anything in the mid-range.

Is it worth it? That's for you to decide. For my 3.5L, I believe it to be a good investment.

Ralph