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-   -   Full RS Backdate Step-by-Step Thread (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/845400-full-rs-backdate-step-step-thread.html)

AdamKaz 01-04-2015 06:02 PM

Full RS Backdate Step-by-Step Thread
 
Hello fellow Pelicanites! I've lurked here for years as I saved up the funds and courage to buy my dream Porsche - a 3.2 Carrera Coupe - and backdate it to a Grand Prix White/Mexico Blue RS 2.7 (hardly original, I know, but the heart wants what it wants). Well I bought a heap of a car from Florida the other month and am starting my restoration and backdate!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1420423140.jpg

During this process, I have to provide monthly updates to FactoryTwoFour along with some funny storytelling. My thought is, as long as I'm going to be recording every step anyway I might as well post weekly updates/questions/inappropriate language here as well so I have a master record of the build I can (hopefully) look back fondly on. My Pelican posts will be much more detailed and technical, while the F24 posts will be more of the general story of the rebuild.

I bought the car in October, didn't receive it until November, and finally got it registered and legal here in Los Angeles in Dec. Now the fun begins. I've spent a lot of time determining the overarching build order and this is what I've come up with:

Rebuild/Upgrade the suspension
Rebuild/Upgrade the brakes
Rebuild/Upgrade the drivetrain
Disassemble the car and remove engine
Send empty shell for bodywork (small amount of rust, a floor pan repair)
Refresh the engine with new gaskets/hoses and a new exhaust system
Paint the shell
Replace engine/components in newly painted shell
Install a completely new interior
Final assembly and fitment of trim/lights/etc.

Any thoughts here? Anything here that is just plain dumb?

You can read some background and about how I bought the car here on the first F24 post here: We bought a Porsche to rebuild! - FactoryTwoFour
and I'll be sharing all my wheel/suspension choices here later this week!

Happy to answer any questions or receive any insults.

Cheers!

APachon71RN 01-04-2015 06:08 PM

Sounds like a plan. What did you budget this build at? I am a few years behind you but I did just buy a 911 and will be picking it up in 2 weeks so I am curious to learn all I can.

~Andy

APachon71RN 01-04-2015 06:15 PM

Just read the story at the link you provided. You write well. I look forward to following your progress.

$10k huh?

~Andy

Sicklyscott 01-04-2015 06:26 PM

Interested in seeing how this turns out. Good luck!

Maxhouse97 01-04-2015 06:27 PM

You'll get plenty of advice here - looking forward to it.

fanaudical 01-04-2015 08:51 PM

Welcome!

My opinion: If you're looking at this as a long-term project and are fully convinced you can fund it, I'd do things in this order:

- Fully assess running condition of engine and transmission
- Disassemble the car right down to the shell
- Identify parts that need replacement; identify what can be salvaged/reconditioned
- Start searching for parts
- Send the shell out for all the bodywork/paint required
- Refresh engine/transmission
- Receive clean, painted shell back from painter
- Sort out all electrical wiring/harnesses
- Be sure to replace fuel lines through the tunnel
- Reassemble

Engine/transmission drop is relatively easy. It's much easier to deal with suspension/brake rebuilds on a "clean build" with engine/transmission out than to do it piecemeal.

AdamKaz 01-04-2015 08:51 PM

haha yeah, we'll see how that budget survives!

A couple weeks into the build, and I've already blown 20% of it!

RSBob 01-05-2015 06:51 PM

Backdating an interior completely, new dash, overhauled instruments, new carpets, front seats and on and on, if done right can easily cost $10K. I restored a 73S and a new dash was $2500. Redoing the original seats in leather and houndstooth was $3200 (not counting re-plated hardware, paint, etc.), new parcel tray in leather $500, carpet kit $350, and on and on. I wish you luck.

Eli W 01-05-2015 06:58 PM

No kidding a really nice orange bar hood badge can be a grand.

Craig_D 01-05-2015 07:58 PM

$10k?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH....AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......GASP.....H AAAAAAAAHHHAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...SPU TTER....GASP...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh man...that one got me! :) Whew...I needed a good laugh too.

I bought my very well running '78 911 SC with 97k miles for under $10k in 2009. It had an excellent condition interior, 20 foot paint job, great running engine, and all of the proper base level upgrades. It was a good runner and a good looker.

Since then, I've redone the suspension, brakes, wheels, custom exhaust and a ton of small things to make it a well sorted example of a mildly hot-rodded 911 SC.

I'm well over $15k into the upgrades and haven't touched body work, paint, or more importantly, sourcing period correct RS components.

I hope you triple that $10k number right now, because the RS clones I've seen posted here usually have more than that in just the motor refresh (I'm not talking about period correct, high compression 2.7L with mechanical fuel injection, dual plug heads, hot cams, and high-end rods/pistons/valves).

This isn't to say that you can't do some of the work to offset the costs, but you're pointing your target at one of the most expensive projects with the lowest budget I've seen.

I'm also not sure why you say that there are just three years of 911 production, the G50 Carreras, as "the best platform" for this backdate, when others, like Singer, have used the more modern 964 as the bases for their resto-mods, and even others have used similar vintage long hoods. I understand that the torsion bar models may well have more in common with the RS than the more sophisticated 964 platform, but this isn't going to be an actual RS, so you might as well also included the 964 as one of the best platforms to create an homage to the RS.

That being said, it sounds like you seem willing to jump into the deep end of the pool, and I wish you the best of luck. I just hope this doesn't become a stalled project when the money is gone and it's not even 1/3 done, and if you are truly like many of us here, the "while you're in there" is going to take over and you'll find yourself married to a project that may kick you in the proverbial pills.

I hope I'm wrong and you are more aware of the costs than your article would leave one to believe, and in that case, I am excited to watch the project progress.

Best of luck!

irl 01-05-2015 08:06 PM

I've seen too many guys think they will tear the car down and get through the process in a year. 4 years later they have a car under a tarp, they way underestimated everything and it gets sold as a project. Get it running on the road and take it in stages while you can still drive a car. Tackle the suspension and rust repair, redo interior, alter the body as wanted, etc. I strongly disagree with tearing into this thing completely unless you have at least 25k sitting around to start ordering parts and 15-20 hours a week. Not trying to be a downer but it's going to take at least two years if you are doing all this yourself. You have so much to read, determine and organize, you will be much happier if you can drive along the way.

David Borden 01-05-2015 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irl (Post 8426861)
I've seen too many guys think they will tear the car down and get through the process in a year. 4 years later they have a car under a tarp, they way underestimated everything and it gets sold as a project. Get it running on the road and take it in stages while you can still drive a car. Tackle the suspension and rust repair, redo interior, alter the body as wanted, etc. I strongly disagree with tearing into this thing completely unless you have at least 25k sitting around to start ordering parts and 15-20 hours a week. Not trying to be a downer but it's going to take at least two years if you are doing all this yourself. You have so much to read, determine and organize, you will be much happier if you can drive along the way.

Very good advice. i just got a project from a good friend that fell into this scenario. its easy to tear apart. its very challenging to build up right, even with all the skills. Much of it isnt fun work. i spent the better part of my vacation working on it crammed in thr footwells and felt as though i made 25% of the progress of what i hoped.

Hellafunctional 01-05-2015 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irl (Post 8426861)
I've seen too many guys think they will tear the car down and get through the process in a year. 4 years later they have a car under a tarp, they way underestimated everything and it gets sold as a project. Get it running on the road and take it in stages while you can still drive a car. Tackle the suspension and rust repair, redo interior, alter the body as wanted, etc. I strongly disagree with tearing into this thing completely unless you have at least 25k sitting around to start ordering parts and 15-20 hours a week. Not trying to be a downer but it's going to take at least two years if you are doing all this yourself. You have so much to read, determine and organize, you will be much happier if you can drive along the way.


That's because some just look at the end product as the prize. Love the process..there's beauty in the struggle..

CarlP 01-05-2015 08:52 PM

Cool Project! The guys are right, don't underestimate the scope and difficulty. I did an RS recreation without a backdate starting in Aug 2006, and driven for the first time in November 2009. Best of luck!

APachon71RN 01-05-2015 08:52 PM

Well said!!! Built not bought to some extent. I want to do a hot rod build but I realize I know nothing and am trying to learn all that I can. I have a good running car as per PPI so I plan on enjoying it with the wifey and building up the dscretionary Poorsche fund for the future "tinkering."

~A

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellafunctional (Post 8426933)
That's because some just look at the end product as the prize. Love the process..there's beauty in the struggle..


Eli W 01-05-2015 08:55 PM

Yup, I will third that sentiment as far as taking it slow and enjoying driving the car.

My car had a bad respray paint job, I was thinking of trying to get out easy and just repaint the bad areas, my car is a driver anyway. Well..... that led to a full glass out doors off paint job that was 8k. Well during the paint my small dash crack became a huge one, now my dash is being sent off and it will be another month before it comes back. That is another 700 with shipping. Now I'm getting the headliner redone, that is another 500.
When the glass came out my chrome trim around the glass got torn up and I have had to buy new, another 550 bucks. Going to h4s cost me another 800. And after all this I'm still trying to ignore the seats that are perfectly good drivers but their flaws now stand out because of the paint. This all started with a crappy paint job. Man, I have not done the math on this I went through 10k without even trying, I could easily spend another 2k on the seats if I don't just stop for awhile.

While I'm in there is a great way to never drive a car and it is no joke. I just want to get my car back! I missed a great fall driving season in a car that has no air conditioning.

Getting the car up and going and starting small is great advice, the worse thing about tearing into these cars is the fact that you can not take them out and drive them.

And when I started my paint it was in September, and the painter said he should get the car done by the last week in October,my car will hopefully maybe be in good driving shape by February right when it has to stay in the garage, yippee!

APachon71RN 01-05-2015 08:55 PM

What has cost you $2k so far?

~A

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamKaz (Post 8425287)
haha yeah, we'll see how that budget survives!

A couple weeks into the build, and I've already blown 20% of it!


JV911SYDNEY 01-05-2015 09:09 PM

Two things:

- Your build order is arse about. I wouldn't rebuild/upgrade brakes, suspension and drive train only to strip it all again for body work. By all means to some test fitting of new major components but doing upgrades first is only going to double the labour component. What fanaudical said is on the money – the only change I’d make is to reverse points 2 and 3 and asses what needs replacing before stripping, then source new components and test fit. I’m sure as you are stripping there will be more components that you discover are past their used by date. After all that at the reassembly stage there will be things that you may have overlooked or decide don’t look or work as well as you would like and will be replaced.

- Sorry but the $10k budget is hilarious, especially if by “a heap of a car” you mean it needs a lot of work. Hell, you could spend $10k just on brakes and suspension or a top end. Panels and bodywork to backdate don’t come cheaply. If it was me, I’d do a 74 3.0 RS rather than 73 as there is less panel work but even then a full rebuild could easily run to 10 times your budget.

I’m not taking the mickey but I’d like to see your build sheet and pricing to see how you arrived at $10k. There may be a whole heap of little things (that add up!) that you haven’t considered. Things like door and window rubbers, head lights and tail lights (it would be a shame to put the old ones back on a freshly painted car), innumerable hoses, seals, gaskets, bushings and bolts, clutch and flywheel, headers and muffler, engine and trans mounts, RS door trims, seats, carpet, headlining, sun visors, switchgear, seat belts etc etc. I’ll happily send you mine if you would like to have a look.

tips 01-05-2015 10:14 PM

my advice is the 3.2 is a fantastic car as is, drive it around for a while and its likely that youll change your mind,

personally not a fan of backdates, takes the cars identity away, when done your car will be one of 10,000 rs reps

Ayles 01-05-2015 10:51 PM

I am just over $6k and two years into my targa. The average joe couldn't tell that I had done a single thing to it just by looking at it... Shoot me a pm if you want a copy of my parts/cost tracking spreadsheet I have been using. I have categorized all part numbers and prices so it might help give an idea of what it's going to take to get things off the ground.

Just be sure to budget a couple thousand for stuff that brakes when you take it apart. Because the po used thread lock where they shouldn't have or the oil lines are fused to the thermostat etc....


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