Will there be regrets?

[j911brick]

I see (do) allot long hood conversions to SC/mid year cars. Presumably this is because of the values we are seeing on long hood cars are now out of reach. But will owners regret doing this in the future as the value of the G body cars continue to increase? As a rule: modified cars are usually worth less than an original car. Remember what happened to those slant nose conversions? Now those cars are typically worth less than the cost of conversion. I know people say they are doing it for themselves and resale is not important, but I have yet to meet the guy who converted his 73s and still thinks it was a good idea.

[SpyderMike]

I just like the longhood look and do not care about resale...having the car for 25+ years and 250,000+ miles it is a keeper. I can afford an original but I chose not to. I don't want to have to worry about it. It ain't always about money.

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by SpyderMike

I just like the longhood look and do not care about resale...having the car for 25+ years and 250,000+ miles it is a keeper. I can afford an original but I chose not to. I don't want to have to worry about it. It ain't always about money.

I hear that, but have a freind who has a real S race car who always said that. that is till a few months ago when he found out what they are selling for now. This theme seems more common than not.

So assume for a moment that you have a back dated SC, and now the value of a SC is twice that of an original Longhood S. Would you still think you made the right decision?

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by j911brick

I see (do) allot long hood conversions to SC/mid year cars. Presumably this is because of the values we are seeing on long hood cars are now out of reach. But will owners regret doing this in the future as the value of the G body cars continue to increase? As a rule: modified cars are usually worth less than an original car. Remember what happened to those slant nose conversions? Now those cars are typically worth less than the cost of conversion. I know people say they are doing it for themselves and resale is not important, but I have yet to meet the guy who converted his 73s and still thinks it was a good idea.

I think there will come a time, probably very soon, when G body cars will come into the collector status to a degree that unmodified bodies will carry a premium. A well done long hood conversion, using all metal, may hold value for quite some time but eventually, the desire for "unmolested" G bodies will prevail.

Your analogy of regretted mods with long hoods to slant noses is a bit off,IMO, because the slant nose was never a popular choice, A better analogy round be conversion of long hoods into G body styles to "update" an old car. Those are the ones that now carry a lot of regret and sell lower than unmolested long hoods but more, in many cases, than a mid-year G body.

[SpyderMike]

For me, yes. I have had the car for 25 years. I will not go back once converted. It is not about any perceived value. I would take a Singer of they were less expensive and I would never convert it back to stock...not in my lifetime.

I don't ever see an SC being valued more than an original longhood, do you?

I think if I had an original well condition car I would leave it alone. I don't. A fender bender 10 years ago left me with new fender, hood and front chassis. This makes my decision easier.

[DanielDudley]

I doubt I would modify a pristine SC, but I would do suspension uprating, and I really like Euro spec engines and 3.2 P&Cs.

There are many great usable cars that are out there as suitable candidates for back dating. They are not pristine.

People are still making ''outlaw'' 356s. Don't worry about what other people would do. Figure out what you are comfortable with, and do that.

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

I think there will come a time, probably very soon, when G body cars will come into the collector status to a degree that unmodified bodies will carry a premium. A well done long hood conversion, using all metal, may hold value for quite some time but eventually, the desire for "unmolested" G bodies will prevail.

Your analogy of regretted mods with long hoods to slant noses is a bit off,IMO, because the slant nose was never a popular choice, A better analogy round be conversion of long hoods into G body styles to "update" an old car. Those are the ones that now carry a lot of regret and sell lower than unmolested long hoods but more, in many cases, than a mid-year G body.

I think G body car are startng to come into play, and have been for a couple years. Unmolested mid year cars are actually bringing more than an SC, and I never thought that would happen. But the reality is there are very few unmolested, rust free mid year cars. That makes them somewhat rare. SCs OTOH were rust proofed so fewer of them have met their demise due to rust. But if people keep converting them, then an original will be just as rare. Keep in mind that even though they made allot of SCs its still a paltry number compared to the production numbers of a regular car, or even Porsche production today.

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by SpyderMike

I don't ever see an SC being valued more than an original longhood, do you?

No, but that wasnt the point. Sort of like: if the SC was worth more, would it not be better just to buy a real longhood car? As somebody else mentioned: allot of people updated their longhood cars and now we see the folly in that.

[SpyderMike]

I still miss your point - sorry. Not too many longhood conversions are happening to nice solid SCs in my opinion. Most of the examples I have seen have been rough to start with. Are you suggesting someone might be better off taking their rough SC and making it stock rather than convert to longhood?

[Arne2]

Originally Posted by j911brick

...would it not be better just to buy a real longhood car?

Perhaps. But there can be other bits at play, too. Maybe you prefer the look of the long hood, and the short hood car you already own is (other than the short hood look) exactly what you want - right options, right drivetrain, etc. Maybe you have a G50 that suits you perfectly, but want it to be a long hood. Is it a good idea financially? Quite likely it's not. But it's not all about the money for many of us.

I won't be backdating my '84 when I refresh it cosmetically. I've decided I don't need it to look like a long hood. But I won't be treating it as a rare collectible, either. I'm not too concerned about keeping it stock for possible resale some day.

[gtc]

Who cares.
The same argument could be applied to mileage.
The enjoyment I have gotten out of putting 175,000 miles on my Carrera is worth way more than whatever diminished value you could figure.
People change the look of their cars because either a, they genuinely like the look, or b, they want to look cool (R group), rich (slant nose, updates) etc... If you do it because you like it, you probably don't care about value. If you do it to look cool and don't sell out in time, you're just an idiot.

[sc_rufctr]

If you own an "average" SC or 3.2 back dating it to a long hood wouldn't hurt it's value IMO. What I mean by "average" is generally tired and scruffy.

The big money is paid for clean, original and unmolested cars. Cars meeting all three of these criteria are rare and that's reflected in their value.
These cars often change hands without any advertising. Word of mouth only.

A well done conversion in STEEL may even add value to the car especially if you use genuine Porsche parts.
Collectors know what they're looking at and like anything some conversions are better than others.

[SoCalSK8r]

Interesting discussion here. I feel like I need to just enjoy my car and not worry about value. If I'm losing sleep over my cars possible appreciation value than that's a clear sign I'm not working hard enough, and even more so it's an indicator that I'm not enjoying it enough NOW.

To me a car is a mechanical tool which gives me a lot of joy, can be lost in an instant, and is not an investment.

If it turns out to make $$ then cool, but there's no price you can put on experience so have fun and stop worrying. 80s 911s are far from rare. It's not a Daytona coupe.


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[JV911SYDNEY]

Not as many regrets as with the forward-dating craze we experienced a decade or so ago!

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

People are still making ''outlaw'' 356s. .

Yes they are are, and that is a good point. But I'm not sure its the same thing. You dont see people taking a good 356B and cutting it up to make it look like a pre A car. I think most the outlaws are made by people who dont want to spend the big money on a real restoration. But I could be wrong.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by JV911SYDNEY

Not as many regrets as with the forward-dating craze we experienced a decade or so ago!

That doesn't seem that long ago. I remember seeing a 73 updated with impact bumpers for sale locally in the late 80s!
More recently, impact bumper cars converted to the "C2" look!

This is for sale in SA right now! 1982 Turbo. Certainly not original and it would require bags of money to put right and he's still asking... $80,000

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by SpyderMike

Are you suggesting someone might be better off taking their rough SC and making it stock rather than convert to longhood?

Since SCs don't really rust, I dont consider a rough" SC the same as what I consider rough for other cars. I'm just thinking; I had a customer who bought a mid year slant nose conversion for 18k and had to sell it shortly thereafter at a loss. THe previous owner spent over $30k on the restoration. I'm sure the previous owner didn't mind spending the money on his dream car, but sometimes life happens and I think he would have wished he spent that $30k on to restore it to stock and ended up with a $30k car when he was done, and not a 15k car.

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

That doesn't seem that long ago. I remember seeing a 73 updated with impact bumpers for sale locally in the late 80s!
More recently, impact bumper cars converted to the "C2" look!

Funny because a few years ago you couldnt give away an impact bumper car. I did know somebody who did that conversion and it cost him more than just buying the original car would have.

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

This is for sale in SA right now! 1982 Turbo. Certainly not original and it would require bags of money to put right and he's still asking... $80,000

Asking....do you think he will get it? What would it be worth in SA had he left it in stock condition?

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by j911brick

....

Asking....do you think he will get it? What would it be worth in SA had he left it in stock condition?

I don't know about the value of the car I posted but there are three turbos for sale in SA right now.

There's a what I would describe as an "average" 83 turbo for $88,000 and a clean 1978 turbo for sale at $110,000.

It seems the early cars have a life of their own.

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by Arne2

Perhaps. But there can be other bits at play, too. Maybe you prefer the look of the long hood, and the short hood car you already own is (other than the short hood look) exactly what you want - right options, right drivetrain, etc. Maybe you have a G50 that suits you perfectly, but want it to be a long hood. Is it a good idea financially? Quite likely it's not. But it's not all about the money for many of us.

I won't be backdating my '84 when I refresh it cosmetically. I've decided I don't need it to look like a long hood. But I won't be treating it as a rare collectible, either. I'm not too concerned about keeping it stock for possible resale some day.

I respect your thoughts. But lets go a step further. Somebody mentioned Singer (which I dont really care for but thats not the point). A singer is basically a longhood conversion on a chassis that has modern amenities. You pay probably 100% premium for a Singer. Would you be willing to pay that premium if you know the car would only be worth a fraction of that in a few years?