Lowering the front end...question
 

I'd like to lower the front end about 1" on my '83SC, and after some good info from a fellow Pelican, understand it's pretty straightforward (locknuts, adjusting screws).

I can't do the work myself--tools are non-existent and my tech abilities nearly so--and so I called around to find someone to do the work. I understand it'll need an alignment afterwards...seems logical.

I was quoted one hour of shoptime, and an alignment, at $342.95 out the door. Is this a reasonable price for the work?

Here is a "before" image...like I said, maybe an inch in the front end.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8612/...d4f26f35_b.jpg

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

----Dave.

Nice looking car! That seems reasonable. One hour can be from $100 to $160 depending on the shop, and with a front end alignment the whole job could take around 2.5 hours. I'm sure some folks can do it quicker, but that would depend on if you'd have to re-index and any other tricky work with the alignment.

Seems fair enough.

My corner balance and alignment was $550.

If I remember correctly, lowering that much can induce some bump steer so you may also want to consider addition of a bump-steer kit, which (again, if I remember correctly), basically repositions the steering rack. Fairly uncomplicated.

Craig,

They ought to tweak or at least check the rear alignment as well, wouldn't you think?

Dropping front impacts rear some? Or not?

Hi Guys,

Thanks to everyone so far!

As far as bump steer is concerned, I'm still planning to leave some distance in the wheel well between the tire and the fender, of course. I just want to close the gap. Admittedly I haven't measured the actual height yet, but knowing that Euro spec is 25.5" and assuming I'm taller than that, I'd think it's safe. Opinions?

Bob, I don't really know if it's a four-wheel alignment that they mentioned, but isn't that pretty much standard these days anyway (for alignments)?

----Dave.

Yes, Sir. Routine. Pretty sure front change can impact rear alignment.

However, CraigD knows so much about the suspension on these cars that I just wanted to bounce it off of him.

http://www.pca-ggr.org/files/nuggets/2009/jun/527.jpg

It's likely a super simple deal. If you own a crappy crescent wrench you can do it. Find these screws on the rear inboard portion of the a-arm. Turning them left lowers the car, right raises it. That's assuming you have adjustment room, aka the caps (gray part) aren't bottomed out.

If you count the number of turns, you can go back to exactly where the car was and "undo your change.

When you're happy with the height, you can get get the front toe adjusted by any regular alignment shop. Front toe on a 911 is no different than any other car. Just make sure the shop doesn't mess with your camber/caster. You'll likely gain a little negative front camber with lowering, but that's actually beneficial. The rear alignment is a massive PITA and it's best to leave that to a place familiar with 911s.

Whole project that way should cost you $50 instead of $350.

Also, I dig your color for obvious reasons...
http://i60.tinypic.com/1g6io4.jpg

I disagree with above response re: caster/camber. Those, especially with regard to camber, WILL change with lowering front. Caster and camber are easy to adjust....just three bolts on top of strut. I think the proposed charge is excessive. Front alignment should be no more than a routine alignment since it doesn't sound like you are not corner balancing. Its not rocket surgery. Simpler than most front ends. Shop is trying to hit you with porsche tax.

Thanks to everyone who offered the insight and info.

Pelican board is wonderful. A local Fort Worth Pelican graciously offered to help me lower per the adjustment screws. I have an appointment for 4-wheel alignment, including camber/caster adjustment, for $149, right afterward.

So, I'll post "after" pictures as soon as I can...working on the car tomorrow.

You might want to check your shocks before spending time/money doing the above.

I said it will change. However, I wouldn't want Cletus's Discount Alignment House doing the front camber / caster, especially if the OP's car still has all the tar intact on top of the struts.

Hey...Cletus' does great work on the local pickup trucks!!! ;)

You can align the fronts independent of the rears if the four wheel alignment was done properly or is known to be good, and you're not lowering the rear (or the front drastically). If it was my car, I'd just lower the front my self and then have the fronts aligned. Then I'd update the bushings, struts/shocks and have a corner balance and full alignment done, as a basic suspension refresh (my refresh was a much more thorough upgrade with high performance bits and raised spindles, but a minor refresh and corner balance w/4-wheel alignment is great to do).

A bump steer kit is probably a good idea, along with removing the stock spacers between the front struts and the camber plate.

Both are great deals.

If you mess with the ride height, alignment and corner balance are manditory per the FSM. Lots of threads, search is your friend. If you only drive to the car show you should be ok with the tape measurement method. I will personally vouch for the necessity of corner balancing, I was having one front wheel locking up under moderate braking, corner balancing made a tremendous difference for the better.

true but not the topic on hand, imo, Pilot Dave doesn't need the while ur in there noise, he's going to learn about his car and invest $149....no harm no foul

Do the bump steer kit as you lower the front. I could not believe the difference it made with the alignment after i lowered the front. The parts are cheap and a local Pelican might do it for a 6 pack of real beer. Oh and if you have not done the turbo tie rods, do that prior to or with the alignment too. You will have a very compliant and responsive front end. I did both on my '83....again, phenomenal results for low cost parts.

Here is the car after today's adventure. Found out I have Turbo tie-rods in already. It was a great learning experience.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7453/...7f59d487_b.jpg

The Laser-alignment went quickly, and the guys at the performance shop loved "Ruby."

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8562/...8e4ef92f_b.jpg

Sitting pretty now, well done. Those laser alignment rigs make it too easy. IMO your finished front ride height does not need the bump steer lowering washers fitted to the steering rack. How does she drive now?

What wrong with "checking"?

What happen if he realizes that he needs to replace shocks after everything is done? Doesn't he need to redo alignment and maybe readjust height too?

IMO the new ride height is a great compromise between the Porsche look and real-world driveability. Everything else looks good underneath. After all, it's got less than 44k miles on it.

One correction...it DOESN'T have Turbo tie-rods. Oh...and it still drives nicely, in fact better. It was out of alignment previously.

it looks, ride height, much better now. Enjoy it Dave.

Thanks so much.

It's 80 degrees today in North Texas...got a special request from my youngest daughter to pick her up in "Ruby." Glad she's getting some road miles :)

Pilot Dave what is the finished ride height you ended up with ? 25"
Looks awsome

Perhaps I responded hastily. I'm just not sure how lowering a car would suddenly make the need for new shocks apparent.

If your shocks are bad, the car handles badly, skips over bumps and bounces...lowered or not.

Thanks again, everyone.

Resultant ride height, 25 1/4"

Ride height shouldn't be taken (seriously) if at the fender. There's just too many variables there. The ride height needs to be measured off of a lower suspension point for it to be truly accurate.

I highly recommend Turbo tie rods. The slop in the stock SC is enough to cause strange feedback in your steering, which isn't what you want. :)

Car looks great btw.

Saucy,
I am not sure if you can't read what I wrote or if I didn't explain my thought clear enough.

Dave was asking about lowering his car, then do alignment.
I reminded him to check on his shocks (10 mins max?) because many of our shocks are bad since our cars are old. Also, he's new to 911. In case that his shocks are bad, but he didn't pay attention to them, he will have to replace them soon in the future. If this is the case, he might need to redo the ride height, and will need to redo the alignment.

Does this sounds legitimate to you?

The steering does feel just a tad sloppy/loose...I was wondering how to approach that problem. Turbo tie-rods will tighten her up and feel totally direct?

Dave,
People talked about the steering column plastic/metal bearings all over the place. This is one javadog talked about the OEM bearings
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/814858-steering-wheel-bearings-revisited.html

Yes install the turbo tie rods but include the bump steer kit too,,,,,while your in there or while someone is already under there getting dirty, cussing and skinning knuckles until they ooze with that clear stuff.