SC Engine Rebuild Sticker Shock

[Lindy]

This is probably an over-asked question, however I am interested in getting an idea of approximately what it would cost me to do a very thorough engine rebuild myself on my 1981 3.0 SC.

My local Porsche (independent) shop is quoting $8,700 for a rebuild using the existing pistons and cylinders, which seems rather high. I would send any machining work out to a reputable shop.

I have built very potent small block Chevy's for vintage racing in the past, however this will be my first attempt with a Porsche.

[Jim Sims]

We spent $8700 rebuilding a '73 T with new P&C's (obtained a very good price on a new Mahle set but the T cylinders are cast iron and therefore cheaper), different good case, SSI's, new rockers and shafts, new chains, sprockets and timing gears, different good used oil pump, new upper and lower valve covers, welded and reground cams, professionally rebuilt rods, crank polishing and head rebuilding. Replaced all engine rubber, lines, seals and engine wiring harness pieces. Borrowed all tools. So, $8700, paying for labor (there is an incredible amount of cleaning if the engine has been leaking oil) and reusing P&C's is not out of line and may even be a little low. Cheers, Jim

[cstreit]

I think there's over 40 hours labor in the top end... (Or is that both top and bottom?) WHich is $3-4k in labor... Add in another $2500 in parts... Then add machine work... $8700 may be a bit high, depending on the hours and motor condition, but not insane...

[CamB]

That reminds me of a story.

See, there was once this little country down in the South Pacific called New Zealand. In Christchurch, a lovely little city in the south of NZ, there was a very very experienced and skilled engine builder.

The story goes that he charges 40 hours labour for a full 911 engine teardown and rebuild.

The bit that makes all the children sit up and smile is that he charges NZ$50 per hour for those 40 hours, or NZ$2000 total. He doesn't even vary the rate by much unless there is a huge amount of extra work.

In fact, he may even do the engines in less time (he has done nearly 200 after all), but charges a flat rate (his bonus I guess).

Children - NZ$2000 +tax is about US$1080.

Does that make anyone weep?

[BlueSkyJaunte]

How much to ship a 3.0 from Arizona to NZ and back?

[Bill Douglas]

Careful Cam, we'll get a whole lota overseas vistors with very greasy smelly 911 engines they called carry on luggage... Yep after you convert $USD to Kiwi money it's almost free. Mind you we usually trade in our local currency which means if you want a recon it would cost you six sheep and a pig.

[emcon5]

The machine work alone can be $3.5K or more. See Wayne's bill in this thread:

Motor Meister Opinions

Tom

[CamB]

Sadly, probably just enough to make it unworthwhile. Ask Marc (marcesq) - http://home.att.net/~marcesq/ - he bought an engine from here. I bet the taxes would (somehow) screw you too.

If it makes you feel better, in US$ I earn almost exactly 50% of what I would in the US. Parts prices are AT LEAST as much as the US (in US$) so all the parts cost twice as much.

But labour is less than half the price (I have had work done on the race car for NZ$50/hour incl tax).

Cam

[island911]

Bill

[Wayne 962]

The thread that I posted previously was for a magnesium case, not an aluminum case. Very different, and very different costs.

A 3.0L rebuild should cost about $8K with NEW pistons & cylinders. Knock about $3000 off of that figure if you reuse your P&Cs.

If you need some good recommendations for top-job rebuilders that would probably do the rebuild for $8K (new P&C), I can give you a list...

Give Tom Woodford (Factory Tour) a call at 1-760-731-7535 - he's my top pick for rebuilds. He picks and chooses what he decides to work on...

-Wayne

[speeder]

You do not say how many miles are on your SC motor, but I am rebuilding my '82 at the moment, (top-end and studs+ reseal everything @ 120k miles), and will let everyone know what the final cost was. Heads are going out to Competition Engineering for complete valve job w/ new guides, springs and seals, ~$900.00, reusing P/Cs since they are in close to factory fresh condition, new rings, ($100), studs, (~$100), gaskets and seals, ~$200, ultrasonic clean engine oil cooler, $60.00, used 964 cams, $150, (got a good deal), used SSIs, $450, (ditto), '74 muffler free from a generous Pelicanhead, Sachs Power clutch, $400.00(?), miscelaneous other stuff, $500.00(?). All labor is my own, doing it as time allows and enjoying it. $8700.00 must include a lot of expensive labor.

[diverdan]

One of mine needed a crank rebuild. $600.00 back to std. std. from Ollies. Then it needed all new valves because the valve stems were kaput. Then I replaced the head studs with $400+ of raceware. Don't forget all the fasteners that you should toss and replace! $8,700 is not out of line! Done right is the only way

[AES]

I guess thats why so many people do the 3.6 swap. A clean 964 for ~ $7000 and another couple of thou to get it in and running. Gives you a lot more bang for the buck.

[Bones]

Originally posted by speeder
You do not say how many miles are on your SC motor, but I am rebuilding my '82 at the moment, (top-end and studs+ reseal everything @ 120k miles), and will let everyone know what the final cost was. Heads are going out to Competition Engineering for complete valve job w/ new guides, springs and seals, ~$900.00, reusing P/Cs since they are in close to factory fresh condition, new rings, ($100), studs, (~$100), gaskets and seals, ~$200, ultrasonic clean engine oil cooler, $60.00, used 964 cams, $150, (got a good deal), used SSIs, $450, (ditto), '74 muffler free from a generous Pelicanhead, Sachs Power clutch, $400.00(?), miscelaneous other stuff, $500.00(?). All labor is my own, doing it as time allows and enjoying it. $8700.00 must include a lot of expensive labor.

hi speeder.......what's the advantage of 964 cams in the SC is it a 3.0 or 3.2?.......by the way Lindy i think $8700 is a total rip off......... buy the parts yourself and get a fixed price for the rebuild......

[john walker's workshop]

new P+Cs should be included in that price. it would be interesting to see the whole list of parts that will go into the engine. i wonder what other parts will be reused. keep shopping.

[pbs911]

$8,700 with the old pistons and cylinders seems a little high. But what it comes down to is (1) would you enjoy doing the work, and (2) how much is your time worth? If the answer to #1 is yes, then the fun of doing the rebuild adds to the value of hte money saved and allows you to add mods to the motor instead of paying labor (read 3.2 pistons and cylinders, cams, etc.) If you don;t enjoy the work then its better to have someone else do it because you most likely will want to just slap it back together to get back on the road.

I truely believe that anyone who can read, has the time, and a scintilla of mechanical ability can rebuild a motor. I say do ityouself, by waynes book, and use this board to answer any questions.

[Chuck Moreland]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
The thread that I posted previously was for a magnesium case, not an aluminum case. Very different, and very different costs.
-Wayne

Wayne, can you elaborate a bit on the differences?

[masraum]

Just guessing here, but because of the nature of Mg (it's flammable) machining would probably need to be done differently or at least extremely carefully.

In the Boy Scouts the modern day equivalent of a flint and steel is a small Mg rod with a handle and a little steel "blade" to scrape the Mg which creates sparks. I guess it would have been much more cool to have a large block of Mg and a grinding wheel.

[Joe Bob]

Regarding a 3.0 rebuild cost.....why do you think the 3.6 swap on SCs is getting so popular.....couple of thousand more and you get 100 more hp.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by AES
I guess thats why so many people do the 3.6 swap. A clean 964 for ~ $7000 and another couple of thou to get it in and running. Gives you a lot more bang for the buck.

But then you might have to rebuild that engine sooner rather than later, so you're in for quite a bit of money. While it is a solution for more power, I don't think it really is a solution for "getting around" a rebuild. Unless the engine you're buying has a recent well documented rebuild, you're still in a crapshoot.