Sunroof cable replacement

[emcon5]

I have a broken sunroof cable in my SC. The SC cables are no longer available, so the replacements are for a 964. According to Wayne's Tech article (and book):

There are two modifications that need to be made. Firstly, there is a felt strip that is wound around the cables, presumably to clean dirt out of the tracks. This felt makes the cable stick on the early cars, and needs to be removed. Using a small pick, carefully remove the felt from around the cable. If it comes off in one piece – you’re lucky. Most of the time it will require some effort to get all of the felt off.

The felt is held on my a spiral wire the length of the cable. Am I supposed to pull the felt from inside the wire, or does the wire come off too?

The article also says that the cable and transport mechanism are integrated so that they have to be replaced at the same time. All I have is the cables, is there more I need to buy to get this fixed?

My mechanic told me that it is better to update the guide rails to the newer style and leave the cable alone. He says it costs a little more, but is less of a PITA, especially if the cable breaks again sometime in the future.

Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Tom

[jwetering]

I did this job a few years ago, so the details are fading from memory but I know this:

1) You can keep the old SC rails...but you will have to file the end pieces of the new style cables down so that they fits into the old guide rails. No big deal.

2) Leave the felt on the cables. They're a b*tch to get in the tubes, but if you use lots of grease and use your zen breathing exercises, you'll get them in there. The felt lines don't slap around in the rails as much, so they're quiter. I cheaped out and re-used one old SC cable, and one new felt cable.

3) The mechaism comes apat completely...use patience and common sense and you can figure it out. The toughest part for me was figuring how to remove the actual sunroof panel. (you have to snap off the headliner). Once that was done the job was reasonably straighforward.

Don't forget to polish all the Aluminum pieces with Autosol and make them all shiny!

[911nut]

To remove the felt start and one end, pull it up with an X-Acto knife and start pullng it off. It should come off as one long strand.

[island911]

Thom, I posted another way to deal with this. http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/Forum3/HTML/010994.html

Edit; Noah, "I don't recall" was/is a Regan thing. "I didn't; inhale, have sex, . . ." was/is a Clinton thing.

[warment]

I installed new cables and rails in my 73 911 T. I left the felt in. Everything works perfectly. The felt should prevent any cable rattle, so I would recommend leaving it. You can always remove it later if you like...

Bill

[911nut]

I also concur with jwetering that the ends will need to be filed or milled so that they fit into the track.
You should replace the felt weather seals that go around the perimeter of the opening and the back of the sunroof panel.
The sunroof panel will possibly require a height adjustment. There are knurled adjusters at the front of the panel which you can jack upand down as required. At the rear, the toggle mechanism is also adjustable. Close the roof and loosen the pivot screws with a screwdriver. The panel will fall down. Now you can push it up to the right height and then tighten it down. Be sure to get it tight or you'll loose the D-nut on the other side (ask me how I know this).
Lastly, connect the trim panel to the front of the roof panel, making sure that the trim panel is in it's channel. If you miss this you will tear the headliner material. Now enjoy your favorite adult beverage;you just saved $300.

[emcon5]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I looked at the cable closer, and found the felt wasn't as firmly attached as I thought. I removed it already much to the amusement of my coworkers (what the hell are you doing now?).

Island, I like your method, I wish I would have seen that before I bought the cables. But, since I got them, I will put in the new ones. I just really want to have all the parts before I start disasembling anything.

911nut, Thanks for the warning. I didn't buy any new seals, as the old ones seem to be in good shape, and the sunroof doesn't leak. Hopefully they will look as good when I have them apart.

Thanks again,

Tom

[emcon5]

OK, new problem. The first step in removing the sunroof is to open it part way. Well, mine won't open. I took it apart part way a few months ago, and only one cable was broken. Now it appears both are broken, as running the motor or turning the manual crank both do nothing but make noise.

How do you get the damn roof open with two broken cables?

Tom

[john walker's workshop]

the headliner on the sliding roof must be popped down in front and slid back into the roof hole. then you will see the overcenter levers at both sides. a screwdriver is used to pop them backwards to relax the rear of the sunroof panel.
the usual question here is how do you pop the front of the headliner down with the roof closed. there's enough room to work a small hook tool into the seam and rotate it so the hook goes under the leading edge of the sunroof liner. pulling down pops the retaining clips out of their holes. there's several. be careful not to tear the headliners in the process. something like a pocket screwdriver that you heat and bend on the end about 1/4" will get the job done. others have used a putty knife.

[island911]

Again, I choose an alternate method. My headliner is original, and it seemed risky to pry on any of it's edges.
I took a 16 inch length of piano wire, bent a small hook on the end, and used it to reach in to the cable hole to grab the link and pop it down.
The first ime I did this it was down in 20 seconds. The second time 20 minutes of fishing around.

Good luck.

[emcon5]

Originally posted by john walker's workshop
the headliner on the sliding roof must be popped down in front and slid back into the roof hole. then you will see the overcenter levers at both sides. a screwdriver is used to pop them backwards to relax the rear of the sunroof panel.

Thanks John. I managed to get the front of the headliner pulled down without mangling it, but I don't see any levers. Do I need to pull the whole headliner to get to the overcenter levers, and where are they? What do they look like?

This project is making me feel like a dumbass. I didn't have this much trouble removing the friggin engine.

Tom

[Wayne 962]

It all becomes obvious when you remove the headliner piece on the roof.

You can also unzip the zipper, remove the motor drive ( you have to do this anyway to replace the cables - pic in the book), and then the roof should be able to be slid back, as there should be nothing holding it.

I don't recommend replacing all of the roof pieces with the 964 because (as someone posted earlier) it's about $400.

The sunroof part was a last, last, last, last minute addition to the book, and the last project completed. They actually emailed that information directly to the printers in Hong Kong.

-Wayne

[island911]

See the silver rod. . .



See the silver rod when out; you can see the whole lnkage;


edit: Pushing the silver rod towards the back of the car will drop the roof.

[emcon5]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
You can also unzip the zipper, remove the motor drive ( you have to do this anyway to replace the cables - pic in the book), and then the roof should be able to be slid back, as there should be nothing holding it.

I tried that first, it won't move, and I don't want to force it. I will try and get the rest of the headliner off and go from there.

Thanks,

Tom

[island911]

Originally posted by emcon5
I tried that first, it won't move, and I don't want to force it. I will try and get the rest of the headliner off and go from there.

Whoa -Tom, when Wayne said "It all becomes obvious when you remove the headliner piece on the roof." I think he meant, when you remove the headliner piece on the sunroof. Don't go trying to pull down any of the headliner.

While trying to slide back the sunroof headliner panel, they do tend to bind a bit if not pulled square.

[emcon5]

Originally posted by island911
Whoa -Tom, when Wayne said "It all becomes obvious when you remove the headliner piece on the roof." I think he meant, when you remove the headliner piece on the sunroof. Don't go trying to pull down any of the headliner.

I knew what he meant, but going back and reading my post, you were right to be concerned. It sounds like I was going to pull off the whole damn thing. What I meant to say was "the rest of the headliner off the sunroof panel"

Ok, The light bulb goes on. Makes more sense now that I understand the the headliner piece is attached to the sunroof panel ONLY at the front. I was just trying to pull down the leading edge of the sunroof liner and trying to see the levers. Once I had this revalation, I had the headliner pushed back into the sunroof, and the panel off and on the workbench in about 2 minutes.

I also understand now why both my cables broke. To say that my guide rails were grungy would be insulting to a, well a really grungy thing. Some time in the past 20 years the rails were treated to a liberal application of grease. Over time, the grease turned into something close to silly putty. Now I like silly putty as much as the next guy, but a lubricant it ain't.

Me any my new cables and guide rails are off to the auto parts store to get some Castrol purple-crud-be-gone, then to a friends house who happens to have a bench grinder, so I can make my new cables fit the old guides.

Island, you were also correct about where they broke, the tips pulled right out of the guide pieces. I may do your fix to them, and stash them away just in case.

Thanks,
Tom

[emcon5]

It is finished and all back together.

I went to a friends house and degreased the guide rails in his driveway, and carefully resized the guide pieces on his bench grinder. The final shaping was done with a dremel.

The only hitch was with the headliner piece, I missed the track on one side when I was putting everything back together, and it ended up stuck. I had to remove the sunroof panel a 2nd time to get it lined up.

Thanks everyone for all the help, I would have been stuck without it.

Tom

[jwetering]

BY some cruel twist of fate, my sunroof started grinding and groaning the afternoon after I posted my 2 cents. Funny that. The cable is now good and broke, and my sunroof is stuck in the closed position.

The (kinda) good news is that I now have the answer to the first question that popped into my mind...how do I open the sunroof with a broken cable.

On the other hand, maybe I'll just leave it closed for a while.

cheers boys!

[Gilberto]

Originally Posted by island911

See the silver rod. . .



See the silver rod when out; you can see the whole lnkage;


edit: Pushing the silver rod towards the back of the car will drop the roof.

As part, does exist only the "metal sleight" whitout the cable?