Removing Ignition Switch/Lock from SC
 

So today I went for a short drive - one that ended in tears because car wouldn't start - the key just turned in the lock and wouldn't start. Push started the car - got home and took the keys out - car still running. Pulled the fuel relay to stop it, disconnected the battery and went to the '101 projects' book for the 'how to replace the ignition lock'

I have the ignition switch/lock undone from the front, and I loosened the nut holding onto the steering lock as per the instructions, which then just say 'remove from the car'.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5u6x6ceb.jpg

Here is where I am at right now. The car has an old 'clifford' keypad installed (no longer hooked up) and that is where there is an extra hole.

What I am trying to work out is if there is something else I need to remove?

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/...psj6cvusgo.jpg

I think number 22 is the one I loosened as per the instructions.

But what about 25 and 26? Is that going through the lock somewhere and has to be undone?

How do you get the lock out - do you push it back through the panel, the pull towards the door? What motion does it have to come out with?

Any help appreciated on this one.

I believe you need to remove 22 and 23, not just loosen 22. 25 and 26 secure the steering column to the dash sheet metal, no need to remove these.

With 20, 21, 22, 23, 36 and 37 removed, the lock would be removed by moving it outboard to the left. Rocking the steering wheel left/right, may me needed if the locking bolt is binding.

If the car won't start or shut off with the turning of the key, you may only have to troubleshoot item 36 after removing item 37. The lock assembly has nothing to do with ignition other than the key lock tumbler (24) is mechanically connected to the ignition switch item 36. Maybe 36 is loose from the lock assembly and only needs to be reinstalled.

With the ignition switch 36 loose from the lock assembly, can you turn the switch with a screw driver to start/stop the engine?

Ok how do you remove 23? It looks like a grub-screw with no head? I did take off 22 completely only to re-read that it only needed to be loosened so it's back on at the moment (and didn't that take some finger dexterity)

I haven't got 36 loose from the assembly yet - I did read up on some methods to remove this and leave the rest of the lock in place - however the key has been binding a few times and I have mismatched ignition/door locks so was thinking about it as an opportunity to have a locksmith take a look at it.

If I can figure out how to remove 23 I might have another go - but then I might try just removing the switch without undoing the entire assembly. My usual method of service is to remove as few parts as possible.

Once the knee pad is out of the way,
23is an Allen set with locking nut 22
There is an electrical connector for buzzer
Unplug the wire unit connected to the back og 36
2 flat head screws 37 hold 36 to the back of the key unit
Reassemble using 2 6mm bolts where the break off bolts were used.
Bruce

What Flat6pac said. Item 23 is an allen set screw.

Ignition switch test........
 

Your ignition switch system comprises of two (2) major components. Ignition switch (mechanical lock - #24) and the electrical tumbler (electrical connections -#36). Remove and test #36 before removing ignition switch (#24). The problem could be just the electrical tumbler. If part #36 is good, then the culprit could be part #24. Keep us posted.

Tony

OK so I got the lock and switch out after finding just the right size hex key at the bottom of the toolbox and clipping some cable ties to get the loom out of the way.

Next problem...

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/...psvnqflima.jpg

The red arrow is what is left of the little shaft that drives the rotator in the ignition switch. It has sheared off the back of the lock.

List price on an ignition lock unit is near enough to $1,000 - not keen on going down that route.

EDIT: ok so my arrow doesn't appear to be showing up, but it's easy to see the broken shaft in the picture.

I had a similar situation when I bought my car. PO would put a key in the ignition just to unlock the steering column and he kept a flat blade screwdriver in the car to start it by sticking it in the back of the electrical connection and twisting.

$1k is about the going rate. If you shop around you might be able to find one for a little less. I think I found mine for about $350 less and it was new. The lock cylinders tend to wear out over time. It seems to be a fairly common thing so just be aware of that if you find something used at a good price.

Also if you get a new or used one it won't match your current key. To keep from having to deal with two keys you can have the new one keyed to match your current key. I used Tony Euganeo because he has a great reputation on here and I got tired of trying to find someone local. Also someone like Tony could easily refurb the lock cylinder on a used one and make it like new.

The existing one didn't match the door keys anyway and the break off bolts were already broken off, so I guess it's not the first time.

I can't see myself spending a lazy k on the lock at this point so I'll see if the shaft can be replaced with something else.

Post a WTB thread.
Don't know where you are located but there are usually a bunch of good used ones for sale at the Hershey PA. swap meet. Bought one there last year for $100.00.

I have repaired that exact problem. I used a small drill bit to make another groove/slot in the base. Then, I hand cut and filed a small metal tab to fit into the groove (tightly) and extend the correct distance into the electrical portion. I used JB weld to bond the tab into the base, let it set over night, and it worked perfectly.

I put the fix into a thread, with pictures, but I can't find it right now. Do a search with my user name in the Tech section and you may find it before I do.

Used prices seem to be all over the place - from $100 in good working order to $350 with no keys and damaged.

I guess I'm going to put back the broken one and be starting the car with a screwdriver until a suitable replacement comes along.

Thanks for that..something to work on.

Did you drill out the pin holding in the ignition barrel to get it apart? That is my first move?

I'll try and find your thread.

Now that Coastr has his problem well on its way to being solved, perhaps I can hijack a bit... The steering column lock on recent Corvettes (well, and not so recent, too) is a well known failure mode, with aftermarket manufacturers making gizmos to bypass the whole column lock altogether. So, I can't help wondering if the column locks on Porsches are prone to failure in any significant numbers. Of course, the Corvette thing is whole different ballgame... 'motor driven' locking and all that.

Rob

Let's not put the 'problem solved' cart before the 'still got problem' horse !

I found the ossiblue thread:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/597665-ignition-switch-fix-mechanical.html

Now I just need to find someone with a dremel or go and buy one. This type of repair is traditionally not something I excel at.

I have two one is new as soon as I have my locksmith neighbor make keys for them I will let you know

Feel free to PM me with the details if you have one for sale.

By the way, if you put your location in your profile you stand a better chance of finding someone local that can help.

Ah, there are approximately zero people on Pelican local to me that I don't already know! But point taken.

I went thru exact same prob on my 83 SC last year. Spent the $950 or so and had it replaced. Then, next problem --- you know have different key for ignition and door lock. A real pain in the #$%. Plus the new key of the new ignition has this tiny key head --- so small that does not provide enough surface to grab/grip or enough torque to turn the ignition. I need to buy a new key head --- the original Porsche one to fix this problem. It just goes on and on.

OK progress...

I was returning a neighbours soldering iron (different project) when I asked him 'don't happen to have a dremel, do you?'

He is a guy with everything and soon produced one with a myriad of attachments. So I hemmed and hawed and dug through the bits and pieces box and found a chunk of aluminium that looked like it might do the job.

I cut out a little piece and filed it up - but that went zinging off to who knows where. So I cut another piece, filed it down to fit the switch and left a tab hanging out for the lock barrel.

I then got the drill and made a centre hole in the back of the ignition lock barrel. I drew a couple of guide lines in sharpie then started to work the centre drill hole back and forth until I had the makings of a slot- albeit one with rounded shoulders due to the dremel bit.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/...psygs9adze.jpg
^ tab I fashioned out of a sheet of aluminium

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/...psgobmy7wq.jpg
^ worked hole in the back of the lock barrel

I then worked the other end of my tab with the dremel to have rounded shoulders the same as the slot and did some fine filing and fitting work until it dropped into the slot. I test fitted the switch back on and it all worked.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/...psjspffika.jpg

I'll probably glue it in with something but for now it's just sitting in there and held with pressure from the switch screws. I think it's going to work OK as a solution, certainly for a thousand dollar saving I'm happy with the solution.

Figuring I was on a roll, I hooked the switch back up to the car and reconnected the battery but took out the fuel pump relay (I only wanted to hear cranking, not start the car).

I twisted the key and ... no bueno.

At this point I'm thinking the switch is broken because I don't get any 'spring' resistance for the start function - it just turns around right until the end. The dash lights come on so the switch is definitely turning, and the steering lock is working OK.

The only wild-card is that I have an immobiliser courtesy of a PO - it hasn't given me trouble before - i guess I'm wondering if there is a small chance the no-start is immobiliser related - or is the lack of 'spring' in the switch indicative of a dead ignition switch.

Wow you spent the $950...I just can't bring myself to do that. It seems ridiculous. Ebay is full of 996/Boxster locks for about $150 or so. I guess supply is running out.

I already had two sets of keys (and no key for the passenger door) so I guess the car has been broken into or had a replacement ignition lock already. I can't really be bothered delving into the big book of receipts to figure it out.

Any locksmith can make you one key for everything for a few hundred dollars

If you use a screwdriver in the electrical part of the assembly and twist, will it start? Or is it the mechanical side?

I didn't do the screwdriver test..I will do it later when I get a chance. The switch is definitely rotating with the fix because the dash lights come on. Previously they were stuck on all the time (with the shaft broken). The screwdriver test will tell me if the fix for the shaft isn't allowing the switch to rotate far enough to engage the starter switch though.

There still is the issue of having no 'spring' at the end of the key rotation. In fact when I did a screwdriver bench test of the starter switch, there was a tiny bit of spring at the end of the travel, but it didn't feel like what it should.

It's been a while since I've done this but the electrical mechanism has a spring in it to engage the starter. If it turns freely with a screwdriver then it's probably ok and it's the mechanical part that is binding, If the screwdriver test doesn't work then I think I have a couple of the electrical connectors in my parts bin. I can send you one to test with if you'll cover the postage to parts unknown. :)

My only suggestion is that you made the tab out of aluminum and it isn't secured into the slot. It's possible that there is enough play in the slot/tab connection that it isn't moving the electrical portion all the way through the spring resistance of the start position. Also, the aluminum itself may be soft enough that the tab has twisted a bit and the full movement of the key to the start position is not being translated into a full turn of the tab/electrical portion into the start position--in other words, the turning of the base by the key has reached it's furthest point before the electrical part has completed its turn to the start position.

Just a thought. The screwdriver test will confirm if the electrical part is good, and you should feel the resistance of the spring. Still, I would do a double check of the strength of the aluminum tab and whether or not is is twisting.

Car PASSES the screwdriver test. I am able to engage the starter with a screwdriver in the switch. It feels like the start spring has only a tiny amount of movement - I can't remember what it was like now when the key was working. I'm sure there should be more.

So the problem is that there is enough play in the tab/slot that it fails to twist the starter enough. But the fit is pretty tight. I think the two issues are combining to cause the problem. Too much play in the tab and the switch needing a lot of 'turn' to engage the starter.

What do other peoples keys feel like? How much 'turn' do you need to do to engage the starter?

I have purchased a new switch and I'm going to fit that to the back of the repaired lock. I'll glue in the tab to get it to hold tight. If that doesn't work I'll be starting the car with a screwdriver until I find a good used replacement.

New switch has arrived. There is a big difference in the spring action (thigh it is stiffer, much stiffer). The switch lockout is also there on the he new one.

I'm going to bond the tab and install and see where I am at.

I glued in the tab with jb weld and let it set for 24 hours. Works perfectly now.

I recommend this fix to anyone, it really wasn't they hard to do if you have the tools. I didn't need a new ignition switch after all.

Coaster: my 1984 also has the small circular hole in the dash just to the right of the ignition switch. Have you looked for a plug to cover it up? Also, thanks for the explanation about the keypad; I had no idea why there is that hole in my dash.