Fabrication Costs (Octisserie Related)

gmacmt · 04:15 PM

Hi all,

I am an electrical engineering student and part time fabricator trying to get my prices dialed in for some parts I have been making.

Been building a whole bunch of random parts lately (chassis stands and octisserie) for a friend who is restoring a couple of 69-71 911's or 912s.

Curious as to what is a fair price for the octisserie. It takes me around 20-25 hours to build one from tubes. Ive been charging about 950 for each of them. (cost of materials usually runs around 350)

I use 1.5" square 14 gauge steel and some really heavy duty casters. Price included all fasteners.

Here are some photos...

I basically want to see if that seems out of line? My buddy is fine with that price, but has anyone had one fabricated before?

And here is a chassis stand that does a pretty good job of rolling the car around. I can post some build plans if there is interest. Its just a piece of angle iron that holds the torque tube (torsion bar housing?) and then sits on a big rectangular box tube in the front.

jpnovak · 03-02-2015, 10:19 AM

I would buy an octisserie DIY weld kit if there was one. Its the cutting and sizing that I don't have time for right now.

The Kit makes sense since I don't think you could ship the assembled unit.

gmacmt · 10:43 AM

Whoops! I mostly just posted this to see if I was over or undercharging my buddy. Wasnt looking to put together a kit, and shipping for a complete set would definitely be out of control. Unless you live in or around Bozeman Montana.

I think a DIY weld kit (assuming there was interest) could be pretty feasibly done for about 500+ship. That would include all the steel, fasteners, and plates you need to mount the octisserie to the car, as well as step by step instructions. It would not include the casters, as it would be cheaper for people to source them themselves (amazon or mcmaster carr). Octagons go together quick for the most part, but fitting to the car is not as easy. Takes two guys about four hours.

Chassis dolly would be cheaper and MUCH easier if people are interested in that.

Dpmulvan · 03-02-2015, 10:42 AM

I think you mean a rotisserie. $950 seems fair to me especially at the price of steel. My buddy bought one for his Chevelle and it was about double what your charging;however it's a little bigger for American muscle cars.

jpnovak · 03-02-2015, 11:07 AM

I don't think you are overcharging. It takes time to build these things unless you have a simple way to miter the cuts. I am not setup with a good bandsaw or chop saw.

I build my body dolly. I had the steel supplier pre-cut the parts. I welded and fit to the chassis. Was about $40 in materials plus 6+ hours of work. I already had the casters. I cheated and used the lift to install on the car. Was pretty simple even being solo.

I have been considering to build the octisserie as the next step.

Bird911 · Bird911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpmulvan

I think you mean a rotisserie.

Rotisserie + octagon = octisserie

Rusty 356 · 03-02-2015, 02:04 PM

I recently farmed out the fabrication to a local company. Once all of the communication issues were resolved the two Octagons, one for a 911 and one for a 356 cost me a little less than 2K using 1.25 heavy wall square tubing. Bought my wheels from Northern Tools. Made a few mods along the way, but happy with end results. You are in the ballpark. Your question whether you are charging your friend too much is not so much the issue as do you feel you are being fairly compensated for the amount of effort you are putting in on the job. If you had them powder coated you could charge 2K a set cause they will look purddy.

B85 · B85's Garage

I would like a set of the plans. How much ? paypal ?

With some added steel do you think the wheels could be made a part of the octisserie ?

Thanks,Randy

JJ 911SC · JJ 911SC's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpmulvan

I think you mean a rotisserie. $950 seems fair to me especially at the price of steel. My buddy bought one for his Chevelle and it was about double what your charging;however it's a little bigger for American muscle cars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bird911

Rotisserie + octagon = octisserie

Yes...

gmacmt · 03-02-2015, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B85

I would like a set of the plans. How much ? paypal ?

With some added steel do you think the wheels could be made a part of the octisserie ?

Thanks,Randy

PM sent...

Looks like there is some interest in kits and plans...

Definitely interested in putting together some kits. Heres a little bit about what I have going on...

I am currently in 19 credit hours of engineering courses and planning a wedding (

getting married this may) but next week is spring break. I would be happy to set aside a day and write up a comprehensive list of plans with photos and drawings if there are a couple of people with interest. Post in here or shoot me a PM if you would want some plans.

I got the idea from this site, as well as some basic dimensions to work with, so I would like to pay it forward to you guys.

I think I would probably be keen to put some written plans up here for free, and offer up my paypal address for donations if you think the plans helped you.

Let me know,

-graeme

B85 · B85's Garage

"my paypal address for donations" that's a great way to do it. If the system works well a bigger donation could be made. LOL

Randy

Coastr · 03-02-2015, 07:09 PM

I think it's a great idea but know that if you post plans someone else will start making them and selling them using your plans.

Maybe you're OK with that but I suggest you think about it before you post the plans - they can't be unposted once they are out there.

I think posting them is a great idea - ideally you'd get an open-source project going where others then chime in on better ways to build it etc.

reddogmotrsprts · 03-03-2015, 01:02 AM

Sounds to me like you've already done the hard part and you should be compensated for that work. Marriage is expensive. Sell some kits; you'll have plenty of opportunities to discount your work later. You have a ready market right here -- I know I'd help you out with a purchase or two.

When competition develops and you get tired of cutting and shipping steel, you can sell the plans. When the plans are being shared by others for free, you can open source them.

I'm from the software world, where most clever ideas cannot be hidden -- they will eventually be re-engineered and re-implemented by others somehow, regardless of technical or legal obstacles. However, until that happens, you have a chance to make a few bucks and grab the market.

Fishcop · Fishcop's Garage

The plans, measurements and specs are available, just search the forum... I'll even go out on a limb and suggest I coined the term Octisserie

Not trying to disrespect your post gmacmt, and you're certainly close to the money you're charging for building one.

My Alternative to a Rotisserie and I make it clear I used the specs from Gary Emory's "Rack" and with help from Hayden at Wevo. Check page two and another member loaded his CAD drawing and specs.

gmacmt · 03-03-2015, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishcop

The plans, measurements and specs are available, just search the forum... I'll even go out on a limb and suggest I coined the term Octisserie

Not trying to disrespect your post gmacmt, and you're certainly close to the money you're charging for building one.

My Alternative to a Rotisserie and I make it clear I used the specs from Gary Emory's "Rack" and with help from Hayden at Wevo. Check page two and another member loaded his CAD drawing and specs.

Yeah, the concept is definitely my intellectual property. And Emory has actual plans on their site too. I used a combination of yours Emory's design for mine, Fishcop. Thanks for the documentation by the way!

I think the value added on my end here would be step by step instructions with explanations and photos as well as all of the dimensions you need.

I dont mind if the plans go open source. I typically find online forums to be pretty benevolent places, and if I can throw together a few kits and pay rent for a month or two from it I am going to be stoked. If someone else wants to come in and undercut the market, well thats their prerogative. The profits arent huge at 500 for the kit in terms of labor, overhead, and materials.

I'll start a new thread next week once I have this hashed out a little further. Looks like there is interest.

Best,

-graeme

gmacmt · 03-03-2015, 07:28 AM

edit^ just replied to the above comments but it appears that it will be posted pending moderator approval.

BTW, here is the other thing we do at that shop....

Hint: its kind of a 914.... In the loosest sense of the name.

gmacmt · 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishcop

The plans, measurements and specs are available, just search the forum... I'll even go out on a limb and suggest I coined the term Octisserie

Not trying to disrespect your post gmacmt, and you're certainly close to the money you're charging for building one.

First off, please let me know if I am stepping on any toes. I am going to be completely forthright in saying that I relied HEAVILY upon emory motorsports and this site. That is why I dont want to charge for the plans if I do offer them. By all means, I would be happy to take contributions, but I dont want to be the guy that makes an open source idea private.

I remember reading that thread. I think the value that I would add to this by offering plans would be saving someone a couple of hours of googling, and then step by step instructions with all the required dimensions, explanations and pictures. It will take me at least a day to throw all of that together, and I already have quite a bit of time invested in planning the builds, so I think that is value added experience. I also would be willing to include my phone number with any plans acquired through my site for help if people run into any issues. Obviously I would be more inclined to help if a donation was made

Thanks for yours and everyone else's help in the other threads, BTW.

I will likely have to post my current builds on here to get some feedback as to optimize the design. I am sure there will be components of the system that could be improved. Last thing I want to do is provide a subpar component for these cars. I know that most of you guys have a lot of time and effort tied up in what you are doing, and I would hate to provide the weak link of that process.

And regarding the proprietary information relating to this endeavor (or lackthereof), if someone can come in and undercut my cost I have no issue with that. If I can't compete, I should find something else to build... Lord knows I already have enough projects! I still don't know how much the stock and materials will cost me. I should have a better answer next week, and will start a new thread providing that information as well as a feedback opportunity for optimizing the design.

Best,

Graeme

jpnovak · 03-03-2015, 09:16 AM

Graeme,

Sounds like a great idea to me.

btw, is there a documented build on that "914?" I see center seat, big tires and perhaps big HP. Looks like a hill-climb car. Pikes Peak?

gmacmt · 03-03-2015, 10:05 AM

No proper documentation online.

Only porsche parts on it are the trans (believe its from a 911 turbo) and a 914 windshield. Everything else is custom. Its pretty weird.

It has a huge LS block making ~700 HP and 800ftlb @2800RPM, naturally aspirated. And yes, good eye! It is for pike peak (thus the clown wing), and my dad drives it. We placed 17 overall last year, lots of improvements in the works right now for next years effort.