Driver's Education Seats

[Pstallo]

If you purchase a 'tuner' Recaro or other type of seat that has the holes for a five or six point restraint, can you still retain your three-point seat-belt and participate in Porsche Driver's Education or does that require you to install a racing harness?

And, I don't mean a fixed-back, non-slider racing seat, I mean like a sporty seat with a slider and a reclining back.

And, if anybody has done this, I'd appreciate your advice, warnings, tips, suggestions, etc.

I'd like new seats, but if it's a huge pain in the tail and prevents you from being able to do driver's ed, I will just get my factory seats recovered.

[tirwin]

You can continue to use the 3-pt. Typically, if you use a harness you MUST have a roll bar. If you think about it, in a roll over event you can duck your head over with a 3-pt belt. You can't do that with a harness.

[Pstallo]

Good to know. I just saw a post that said you grew up in Alabama, Tirwin. Where are you from?

[patkeefe]

I think there are a lot of harness bars with 5 point harnesses and no roll bar. PCA says this is OK...I think it doesn't make sense.

[tirwin]

Pstallo,

I grew up in Anniston. I have a lot of friends and family in the Huntsville area. Might be getting over there for a visit this spring.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by patkeefe

I think there are a lot of harness bars with 5 point harnesses and no roll bar. PCA says this is OK...I think it doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense. It may varies somewhat by region or maybe it is a matter of enforcement. I distinctly remember this being an issue when I was researching seats.. 5-pt is no longer allowed either as I recall. Must be 6-pt.

At the end of the day, rules schmoolz... If it were me, I would not use a harness without a roll bar. Keep the 3 pt and you'll be fine.

[Pstallo]

Send me a message if you do! I grew up in Gadsden and went to JSU, so Anniston is very familiar!

[bkreigsr]

PCA also mandates that the passenger (instructor/student) have the same restraints as the driver. Something you should considering in your planning.
Bill K

[bkreigsr]

Originally Posted by tirwin

It doesn't make sense. It may varies somewhat by region or maybe it is a matter of enforcement. I distinctly remember this being an issue when I was researching seats.. 5-pt is no longer allowed either as I recall. Must be 6-pt.
At the end of the day, rules schmoolz... If it were me, I would not use a harness without a roll bar. Keep the 3 pt and you'll be fine.

5 Point is still okay for DE. You are allowed to anchor the shoulder straps to the rear belt bolts, however the seat must have provisions for a pass through hole for each shoulder belt.
FWIW, the coupe body is very strong in and of itself.
Bill K

[Cajundaddy]

Yes you can add seats with most organizations and still use 3pt belts as long as it's a good fit without gaps between you and the belt. I did this in my car for many years and added a CG lock to keep the belts tight on the track. I too am in the camp that says a harness, HANS, and roll bar are a package deal. Adding a harness-only gives a false sense of security while putting your spinal cord at risk.

A recent technology from Schroth ASM has promise and has been approved for use in some groups. It is technically a 4pt that holds you in place but in an impact one of the shoulder straps elongates which keeps your hips planted in the seat avoiding the submarining problem with other 4pt types that tend to kill people. I have looked at the crash test data and it looks promising.

[Charles Freeborn]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Yes you can add seats with most organizations and still use 3pt belts as long as it's a good fit without gaps between you and the belt. I did this in my car for many years and added a CG lock to keep the belts tight on the track. I too am in the camp that says a harness, HANS, and roll bar are a package deal. Adding a harness-only gives a false sense of security while putting your spinal cord at risk.

After considerable research, I fall in this camp too.

The cost to re-cover is roughly the same as changing out to lower-end,(but still nice) Corbeau or equivalent seats. If your stock seats are sport type it's worth keeping them. If they are standard type it's worth considering a replacement with better side bolsters. They will give a more snug fit for lateral forces.
-C

[Quicksilver]

Dirty trick for using retractor type 3-point belts for serious driving. Move the seat back and with the belts snug, yank the belt so it locks. Then hold it in the locked position and move the seat forward until you are really restrained. (really hard to do with manual seats.)

Friend that showed me this trick did it during his first test drive with the original turbo Quattro. Salesman looked at him with a confused look and then had his day "rearranged".
After enduring the full throttle experience the salesman asked him if he wanted to start up the paperwork and he told him, "I don't want this one. It's been thrashed!"

[tirwin]

Quote de Cajundaddy

Yes you can add seats with most organizations and still use 3pt belts as long as it's a good fit without gaps between you and the belt. I did this in my car for many years and added a CG lock to keep the belts tight on the track. I too am in the camp that says a harness, HANS, and roll bar are a package deal. Adding a harness-only gives a false sense of security while putting your spinal cord at risk.

After considerable research, I fall in this camp too.



The cost to re-cover is roughly the same as changing out to lower-end,(but still nice) Corbeau or equivalent seats. If your stock seats are sport type it's worth keeping them. If they are standard type it's worth considering a replacement with better side bolsters. They will give a more snug fit for lateral forces.

-C

+1

I went with Corbeau seats with a high side bolster.

[Pstallo]

I'll keep the three points then (which I'd rather do for now, anyway).

Is there a seat that is reasonably snug, but still has a folding seat back and you can use a slider to adjust it that is NOT an engineering nightmare to install?

I've seen plenty of posts that involve welding, manufacturing seat brackets, etc, but I have no skills or equipment for metalsmithing.

[midnight911]

i use factory 3 point over a bucket fixed back race seat. good enough for DEs. i removed 6 point i used to have as i dont have cage. either go the whole nine yards or stay with 3 point...i told myself. the bucket seat alone gives you a good lateral hold. look at how the stig drives with stick arrangements. its doable.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by Pstallo

I'll keep the three points then (which I'd rather do for now, anyway).

Is there a seat that is reasonably snug, but still has a folding seat back and you can use a slider to adjust it that is NOT an engineering nightmare to install?

I've seen plenty of posts that involve welding, manufacturing seat brackets, etc, but I have no skills or equipment for metalsmithing.

This is the seat I have in my car. Corbeau GTS II. It is available in different colors. I bought the seat rails someplace else (Amazon?), but it was a bolt-in fit with no modification necessary. It has a manual slider rail very much like the original factory.

Originally, I had planned to find a pair of Recaro LS-B's and have them recovered but people were selling junk for stupid money so I ended up going with these.

Here is a pic of it in the car. The high side bolsters keep your butt planted in the seat.

[Pstallo]

Those Corbeau's sound like the ticket. You don't by any chance remember what seat rails you purchase do you?

[tirwin]

Here is a link to the Corbeau website with a table for which seat bracket model numbers for different make/model cars.

Master Seat Brackets - Corbeau Racing Seats

'74-'89 911/912 is part number C22059 for both driver and passenger. Just search for that part number and they come up on Amazon. I think that was the best price I found a couple of years ago.

The seats are comfortable but just be aware that the side bolsters make the seats feel tight. It doesn't bother me but they aren't for everybody. The quality is pretty good and they look good. I'd still probably prefer Recaros though but these are still a good seat.

[Pstallo]

That's excellent info--thanks Tirwin!