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Same exact thing happened to me in my 87, mind telling us if the starter was new or rebuilt and how much..
Thanks
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Old 04-10-2015, 01:54 PM
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Bcrazy
 
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Hi George,

It was a new starter- a Bosch, apparently an updated version of the OEM version. If I recall, it was 295 plus labor. So about 500 having the shop do it.
Old 04-10-2015, 02:11 PM
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Hello all

I am have an intermittent no crank issue as well when car is hot from driving. I have an 87 cab, just redid top end and clutch. I never had the issue before I did the drop and work.

I did replace fly and reference sensors ( both)- gapped correctly .

If it sits for a while it will start again no problem.

I did replace original starter and still happens. I cleaned connections and ground and used dielectric grease on connections.
Always hear fuel pump and get dash lights when turning ignition switch .

Could I in fact have a bad rebuilt starter?
Does the yellow # 50 wire from ignition switch break at any point - maybe a loose splice or connection somewhere?
On 87's is there a relay that might be bad?
Would hot engine show a failing ignition switch.

It's driving me nuts and makes me fearful to drive and get stranded somewhere, especially since I just did so much work on it. Since it's not all the time it's hard to trace....

Thanks to all!!!!
Old 05-06-2015, 07:11 AM
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Typical for BOTH the 914 and 911. Heat expands the starter solenoid. The grease inside gets old and and the heat gives it the excuse to not work. A whack on the solenoid "usually" frees it up.

The solution is to find a new old stock unit and replace it.....or just be aware of it or whack it when it happens or learn to pop the clutch......

Lots of people go with the more modern Japanese starters since the Bosch units are NLA. Not a fan. My rebuilder still has access to good quality parts. YMMV

BTW if you see a NEW Bosch starter for your ride and it's new old stock....grab it. All other are remans and ain't worth spit in most cases......yes they have a warranty for life but YOU eat the labor.

EDIT....another solution is the Ford starter relay, "Hot Start" kit. Seems to work......have to look around for it. Try Glenn Sager at Pelican, he is familiar with it
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Last edited by Joe Bob; 05-06-2015 at 07:58 AM..
Old 05-06-2015, 07:52 AM
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The starter I just put in is a rebuilt one from Pelican. I guess it may just be faulty? That sucks.

Not easy to whack with hammer with the ground clearance......
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:04 AM
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A solid handle screw driver has worked. Call Glenn about the relay.
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:05 AM
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The ignition key part could play a role. My '77's ignition switch - the mechanical part - more often won't turn to the start position than not. I put in a push button switch to do that job. I have replaced the switch part (nasty job) several times, and it is not why this is happening - the key part is simply worn out, and it is more difficult to fix. Since the other parts work fine (and this is primarily a track car anyway), the button is a fine solution.

Take a look at the wiring diagram, and see how you could install a temporary switch (so as not to cut holes in the dash for one) to see if bypassing the start position (key in the run position) allows a start (or at least turns the starter over) when otherwise it won't turn with the key.

You can do something similar to see if there is a voltage issue at the starter solenoid. The solenoid does two things - it pushes the starter gear out to engage the engine flywheel ring gear (or is that done just by the way the starter is made?). And it makes a contact so that the current from the huge battery cable is connected to the starter. Anyway, with starter issues often you will hear a click - but nothing more happens. The click is the solenoid moving, whether it is doing its other jobs or not. Means at least that the key is closing the solenoid circuit, and current is reaching it.

Anyway, you can jumper from the connection of the battery cable at the starter to the press on wire fitting on the solenoid. Does the same thing as the ignition switch does as far as the starter is concerned. That should tell you if there is a problem with voltage drop or something in the solenoid to switch connection. The solenoid kits basically do this - connect the low voltage drop, high current capacity battery wire to the solenoid via a relay. This reduces the current needs of the ignition wire.

I have had good results with the geared starters. I use ones made for aircooled VWs - they bolt right up. I'd use one on my SC if my racing class rules allowed it (but they don't). Luckily, the starter from 1976 has always worked fine.
Old 05-06-2015, 02:06 PM
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Old 05-06-2015, 02:08 PM
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Rebuilt starters are not worth the labour to install
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Old 05-06-2015, 03:38 PM
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I think I need to insure there's not an ign switch/ yellow wire issue first, then go starter route.

Again, my orig starter (60k mi) was fine before I redid top end. It appeared to be bad once I put motor back in and now rebuilt one does too? Doesn't seem right.

I'll need to check yellow wire at starter next time this happens. If I get a hot wire with good voltage, then I know it's the crappy rebuilt starter..... I am thinking the wire is pinched/ shorting / losing good connection when hot.

Really sucks, cause changing out the starter on G50 is a pain. Have to drop motor a few inches....
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Old 05-06-2015, 04:01 PM
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Anyone know what the 'JC' box in the diagram is?

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Old 05-06-2015, 06:33 PM
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I'll guess JUNCTION
Old 05-06-2015, 06:36 PM
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You all think it represents the 14 pin connector?
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Old 05-07-2015, 09:48 AM
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did you replace the CHTS to the update version?
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Old 05-07-2015, 10:37 AM
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Yes I did. Did it when I redid heads/guides.
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Old 05-07-2015, 11:06 AM
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damn, well it might just be the "heat soaked" starter syndrome, that sucks.
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Old 05-07-2015, 11:15 AM
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J/C (50)

The cup figures are DIN spec for circuit diagram female connectors. The arrows have to be for male connectors, although my Bosch Handbook doesn't show that figure for some reason. The (50) indicates it is part of the starter wiring.

The Bentley diagram for an '87 shows this, but not what you have your finger on. It shows it as a connector which allows one input to split to two outputs, with the second going to the air conditioner relay. The "direct" out goes to the starter, but also to a blower control unit and the heater level contact. And the input wire has a second wire attached to its female plug which goes on to the DME.

I couldn't find what JC or J/C is in any listing, but maybe that is junction connector? It would be a white or clear plastic rectangle, with two rectangular holes on each end, each containing a male press on connector buried down inside. Or perhaps two on one side, and one on the other.

Older Porsche wiring diagrams would have indicated where this connector might be, but not so, I guess, with the later ones.
Old 05-11-2015, 03:31 PM
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All fixed! It has been fine since I disconnected and cleaned terminal 1 of the 14 pin connector. Pin 1 is the yellow wire. The female end had some corrosion in it. I cleaned it out with a wooden matchstick and it's been good so far. So glad!
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Old 05-23-2015, 08:19 PM
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What part had the bad connection again?
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Old 05-24-2015, 04:48 AM
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It's referred to as the 14 pin connector- a wiring harness connector that is on the drivers side in the engine bay' just aft of the fuel filter and coil. If you ever drop your engine you must disconnect it. One of the 14 wires is the #50 yellow ignition wire.

This is not exactly what mine looks like (location ) but shows the part

http://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/928-forum/500455d1293846647-hvac-compressor-relay-repair-procedure-w-pics-image018.jpg
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Old 05-24-2015, 06:26 AM
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