Car stopped running

[Blizzard]

Help! My 1986 (43,000 miles) just stopped running on the highway. It cranked but would not start. AAA flatbed back home. 2 hours later it started and ran at idle for about 2 minutes and died - now won't start. Anybody have any ideas where to look first? I checked all fuses and relays - seem to be ok.
Thanks!!

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1984 911 Targa
1986 911 Coupe

[This message has been edited by Blizzard (edited 07-11-2001).]

[nhromyak]

1) DME relay
2) Head Temp sensor (one wire is the old version, I thought this was taken care of in '86 though).

Good luck.

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Nick Hromyak
'85 Carrera 7 & 9 Fuchs
Havin' Fun in Sacramento

[fred cook]

With the ignition in the run position, can you hear the fuel pump? If not, check the fuel pump fuse in the front fusebox. Could also be the fuelpump relay. I had almost the same thing happen on my 1980SC. Parked the car, came back a couple hours later and it would crank over, but not start. The Fuel pump fuse was not blown, but had enough corrosion on ends to set up high resistance.
Good luck.

[NickB]

You may want to check with 86ragtop. He has been going through something similar.

nick
'70 911 E

[DRD]

Things to look at, Change the DME relay first. Also, the 3 connectors on the ,head temp,tdc,reference, sensors on the left hand side on the engine, make sure the are all the way in snapped close. These little mosters work them selfs loose some times.
Check the head temp sensor, tdc and reference sensors. After it craps out, pull a spark plug wire and have someone crank on it to see if you have spark.
DRD
Darren

[twin plugged targa]

I thought my problem was rare but recently saw a thread on the rennlist BBS same as mine.
Remove the diistributor cap (easy) and check condition of inside of cap. Now remove rotor and again check rotor notch etc for signs of wear/cracks.
My symptoms were sporadic and in the end were due to excessive end float caused by bearings which had either moved or set up badly by PO or mechanic.
Also check for the wear of the carbon contact in the dist. cap, this should be about 3/8" long at least!.
If in doubt, it is easy to remove distributor.
first turn engine over with cap removed until rotor lines up with small notch in dist. body. then put some duct tap over rotor to keep in same rough position. Then undo the only nut with 13mm socket and 4" extension and carefully slide out dist. body.
This may take some patience and wiggling but it should come out.
The thrust washer should be hard up on the body of the dist.. If in doubt look at my old pics (use search feature)
If it looks like it may be dist. related I know Jonny Walker has a spare one at a good price!.

For a car to stop dead it is usually something major and obvious (Once you find it of course )

"I am now the king of diagnostics!"
"Let the questions Flow"
How'd I do Warren?

Please keep us posted on symptoms as this board WILL fix your car!
DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT SEND IT TO THE GARAGE YET!
Good luck

[Blizzard]

I have just returned home to get all your responses to my problem. It's too late to start diagnosis, but I already feel better. I will get to it tomorrow and keep you posted. Thanks for your support.
Paul

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1984 911 Targa
1986 911 Coupe

[Team Caffeine]

Ok, 86ragtop, I am also having intermittent ignition problems. (83 911 110K miles, permatune ignition box) The car stoped running, an hour later it starts up again, coil leaked oil, replaced it, ran fine for 2 days straight, won't start next morning, no spark at coil, later that afternoon, car starts fine, followed all tech support from perma-tune (7 pages worth!) and box checks out fine, ground checks out real close to spec. +/-.1 Ohms. Replaced fuel filter to be sure. Ground straps, fine...It is driving me nuts....Any help is appreciated, I really don't want to go to the garage yet!!!! Thanks

[movin]

Hi ragtop!
Was your distributor end float the problem? How much end float is too much?
My problem, same as Blizzard's, has returned, focus is on the DME box again. Applying an upward force on the DME plug and viola! it starts, apply a downward force, it stops and won't restart. Checked the DME plug by disassembly, all connections look good. Still think there is a bad connection internal to the DME box.

[DRD]

Hey Movin, If you need a DME, I have 1 for sell, I bought a rebuilt from vertex 2 months ago,bought it from Gilbert. I paid the core on it, never used it yet, fixed the car without it. I have a reciept plus 1 year warranty, just a FYI.
DRD
Darren

[R22tech]

Movin- the DME is definetely the problem. You can fix it in a flash if you can get the pcb out. I bet the solder points at the DME relay where it plugs into the board have failed. Probably just one. If you can get the board out you can wiggle the points and see if a solder joint has cracked. Just re-solder the connectors and you are done.

[twin plugged targa]

The amount of endfloat allowed is practically 'zilch!'
Do not be frightened to remove your distributor and take a peak, it is really not that difficult and could save you ALOT of time in the long run!. It would have saved me $1K and 7 weeks of torment!.
When I removed mine, I could see 1/4" of the lower bearing - I guess almost all of it!. This was way too much which was apparent when I got the new one!.
The post 83 dist. is very simple but I am not sure of the pre 84's .
hope this helps
rgds Ben
Movin- sounds like a DME problem, hope you get it sorted.
Blizzard - keep us posted
Team Caffeine - sorry, but I am noe more familiar with the Carrera, the SC is a different beast!
Try a new post as there are hundreds of SC boys here! good luck

[Team Caffeine]

Thanks 86ragtop, will try a new post!

[Dug89]

Blizzard: DME Relay! Have seen it before.

Doug '84 911 ROW.

[movin]

My experience with the DME relay is that it doesn't become a problem until you shut the engine off, then upon starting, it won't start. Really didn't affect the engine while running.

[Blizzard]

It has benn 5 days since my car died. Last Thurs. night I began checking the connectors in the engine compartment, the distributor cap and the rotor. All seemed ok. I did find a crack in the cap, so I have ordered a new cap and rotor (from Pelican Parts of course!).
I have not been able to get back to this problem until this evening. I pulled out the driver's seat (more about this later), wiggled the DME relay plug and it started. I have run it for about 1/2 hour and all seems ok. I have ordered a new DME relay (Pelican Parts) to be on the safe side. This seems much too easy - is this realy the problem?
As to the seat removal, those hex head screws are very soft - I had to drill one out - I will be replacing all of them with new, stronger ones. The Bentley manual gives very good advice when it warns that a blanket should be laid out on the door opening so as not to scratch the sill. Also, be careful not to hurt the door panel or rear quarter with the seat rails!!!
In the process of my inspection of the engine compartment I noticed that the black wire leading to the O2 sensor is broken. I know that the engine will run without the sensor so I have ignored this for the moment. How would this broken wire affect the performance of the engine? Up to now I have not had any engine problem at all for the 500 miles I have driven this car.
Thanks to all for your help and support!! This IS a technical forum when it needs to be!!!

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1984 911 Targa
1986 911 Coupe

[twin plugged targa]

Hi Blizzard,
Hope you have sorted out!.
The effect the O2 sensor will have is that it will run richer with the sensor unplugged.
Also the idle revs may be a little higher than normal (1000rpm).
I also found that driving slow, around town the car would 'buck' a little as too much gas was getting thru. As for performance, at higher speeds it would run faster. I was told after the engine was warm that it would also smoke a little.
All in all it should not have a huge effect on the car!.
As for the dist. cap, this sounds like it would not have helped your system, where on the cap was the crack?.
was the rotor damaged?
If these attempts do not work, if you have not already changed your head temp sensor from single to two wire sensor type then it may be a good time as it is cheap and easy and rules this out as a culprit.
hope my advice is correct and helps!
rgds Ben


[This message has been edited by 86ragtop (edited 07-16-2001).]

[Blizzard]

Ben,
Thanks for the info. The crack in the cap is on the outside on the black plastic - it does not go all the way through.
What is the issue with changing from a single to double wire head temp sensor?
I would like to replace anything that might be a problem in the future. I know I will be very paranoid for a long time.
Thanks,
Paul

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1984 911 Targa
1986 911 Coupe

[This message has been edited by Blizzard (edited 07-17-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Blizzard (edited 07-17-2001).]

[twin plugged targa]

On some of the Carreras the head temp sensor was a single wire type and used the threaded area of the sensor as it's earth. Problem was that the dissimilar metals would cause corrosion and lose the earth!
So... easy way to check is to unplug what should be the top plug (one of 3 in a vertical line) on the left side of the engine bay. From memory, the plug leads back to the DME and the socket leads to the sensor!. The plug should have 2 connections whereas for some reason the socket only has one connection (with one wire- if old type).
This enables easy upgrade.
I think this is right! .
Anyway , I believe there is a Pelican Tech article on the web site for changing out and should only take about an hour to do!.
Part is available here at about 60-70 bucks I believe!.
The only thing the article is not clear on is that you MUST remove the rear left wheel!
That is where the sensor is located!
Hope this helps and if you have the old type - it may help you out in the long run even if it is not your problem now!
The crack on the exterior may be your problem with engine dieing as the spark can track across a crack I have been told!.
Was the carbon electrode inside the cap (in centre) worn or good?. Should be about 6mm/1/4" long!.
Mine was worn to about 1/16" with my old problem.
Hope you get it 'sussed' nothing worse that a breakdown, believe me! I have had a gut full in the last month!).
Still, the love affair returns pretty quick once rectified!.
Good luck- Ben


[This message has been edited by 86ragtop (edited 07-17-2001).]

[Adept]

This is very similar to the problem I am _still_ having with my '73 911T. It runs fine most of the time and sometimes will just up and die. Usually it will restart a while later. I'm getting frustrated trying to isolate the problem.