Have you thought about replacing the cat with a pre-muffler to reduce temps in the area?

BTW, after I did my AC I got about 39 degrees at the center vent while driving on an 80 degree day, black car. That was with the stock deck condenser, desert duty front condenser, serpentine evaporator in a sealed, insulated box, procooler and barrier hoses, on R12. I thought I was good until I ran across Kansas on a 95-degree day; the AC did absolutely nothing under that condition. Definitely needed more condenser.

You see, I've heard this story from Dave a few times, which is why the condenser was my first step! :)

Regarding fans, I hooked it up to a power source and it pushed impressively, and I noted the polarity. I didn't note the direction it was spinning, nor can I even see it at this point! Will check when I get it all hooked up.

@CG, thanks for the encouragement.

A larger fan would push more air, but in the process of getting everything to fit together I was glad I had a little wiggle room. Without those considerations, An 11" would have fit perfectly, 12" would have overhung the edge a bit. On the outboard side there is a little flange at the top that interferes.

You must have one heck of a driveway. Pics?

You should ask Dave (Wavey) about his wildlife encounter. For legal reasons he's always been a bit vague about how fast he was going.

I hear that Griff's supercharged 911 goes 0-148 in about 9 feet (as long as Bob K. is not in the passenger's seat, buttofcourse)!

I'm not concerned too much about this but will observe pressures once I get it up and running. I already fabbed a simple heat shield that can mount on the bottom of the bracket if warranted

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure my mounting orientation matches the original factory fitment.

What I'm finding so far is oil tends to pool in low spots throughout the system.

Speaking of oil, when you add it to the condenser, do you simply pour it in both the suction and discharge ports, or what? I got very little out of it when I drained it. (Lots more from the front condenser and hose.)

Question for Ronnie: did you get you smuggler box insulation from a muffler shop? What is it, exactly? (I have insulation envy and must know details).

Nathan,

U'd be surprised in the difference of CFM between various brand's of fans.
I'd suggest focusing on Spal or their closest competitors; avoid certain
west Pacific imports; over the years we tested many.

If you can fit a 12" with overlap, go for it.
Remember that most of the 'muffin' or low profile fans all have approximately
the same diameter motor case, that section of the fan does little:
3" dia = Area equals Pi times r times r or 7" sq of nothing.

In terms of oil, once you have a fresh system running the oil become homogeneous in the system,
it spreads through out. The primary traps are drier and evaporator. If you trying to add oil to a system
you don't need to pour into the new component, you can put it in anywhere and within a few minutes
of running the system it spreads out. A typical 911 system needs 5 to 6 oz in total .

Yes, a few times though not for temp reasons. Not sure what's up with emissions inspections around here, i may not be able to get away with it. I'll find out eventually...

Nathan, I bought it at a local motorcycle shop, but I'm sure you could find it online (see pic below).

It's really nice stuff to work with - long fairly "thick" strands of fiberglass material, that packs very well into every nook and cranny, without flying all all over the place while doing so, and stays put.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434423270.jpg

Thanks Ronnie, I really liked the look of this stuff in your install.

It's a stupid experiment, and won't tell you anything useful about anything. Elsewhere I have explained carefully about radiant heat transfer and emissivity. The bottom line is that in an non-turbocharged automotive environment, radiant heating is not that much of an issue. For cars running turbos, the turbo, exhaust manifold and downpipe can get to yellow heat, and that can affect fuel and cooling system parts. But that's not applicable here, because the catcon never gets to any kind of heat that shows in the visible range. You do not have to worry at all about radiant heating. As in, put the idea out of your mind, because it just doesn't matter at all.

Radiant heat transfer is so small in comparison to the mass heat transfer (air across the condenser fins) that it doesn't even matter.

Stop trolling this nonsense. I have explained before why this isn't a concern. your continued attempts at hijacking these threads has not gone unnoticed.

Good to know, thanks. What I noticed was how many other people have used this location with excellent results. Couldn't have been too big a problem, right?

Hmmmmm. Ronnie, what's on your mind?

Nathan, I forgot to mention that the pictured bag is labeled 450 grams, and I used a whole bag and about a quarter or so of a second bag.

Thanks, and I can't say definitively what kind of a difference insulating around the evaporator housing made with regard to performance (I made several changes at the same time), but I did it primarily for the heck of it, and it makes sense to my limited intellect (right, Eric?!?!), but as you are aware, I have seriously cold a/c even in burnass TexASS, so maybe it helped . . .

You are now, Cory; guard yer loins, bro !!!! :eek::D

My climate hear is nowhere near as demanding as TexASS, or the southern states. On the other hand, I park next to a muffler shop every day and it would easy to ask if they have that stuff.

Me loins are sealed shut..... :)

The insulation kit that came from Rennaire was an industrial HVAC product. I was a large sheet of heavy aluminum foil bonded to a thick, black insulating foam (1/8"?) with an adhesive back. It wrapped/molded around the evap box so it sealed air leaks and reflected ambient heat under the trunk lid. The evap box was then a pretty tight fit into the smuggler box, but there was some room left to cram in more insulation.

Anyone think of covering the interior of the smugglers box with a spray can of undercoating?

As a general rule you can block the overhang (within reason) and still get more CFM through the condenser than with the 10".

You might wish to take note that at least one vendor markets ONLY the condenser that mounts in the front of the rear wheelwell....

It appears to me that mounting a condenser near the engine/exhaust/catalyst as a first effort sometimes requires a second condenser to get the "job" done.

Logically one would think that the first effort marketed/offered would/should be the front of the rear wheelwell.

Are you really saying that "visible" heat, cat/exhaust GLOWING, is a worrisome matter but heat not visible to the human eye is not..?

Isn't that an admission that the IR from the engine/exhaust/catalyst has some level of adverse effects?

So what is your threshold?

With our cars it is clear that every little bit of improvement to the A/C must/should be paid attention to, especially so when there is an obvious, virtually NO COST solution.

So why Op to ignore this aspect..?

Op purchased ($100 :):)) the 993 condenser from our sponsor, and custom building the required hoses, so no vendor is being "dissed" by suggesting a different mounting

In other words some portion of the fan CFM is being used to overcome the engine/exhaust/catalyst adverse effects...

What % would be your guess..?

Why guess? Do the calculations yourself.

If you want to do a little research on your own, you'll need to learn about the following:

Radiative vs. conductive heat transfer.
Emissivity.
The temperature of the condenser at operating pressure.
The surface temperature of a stainless steel catcon housing at steady-state engine operation.

For grins, you can triple the operating temp of the catcon and plug the number in. The results will make you laugh out loud.

None of the above matters even one iota.

The fact is, placing the condenser farther away from a >400 degree heat source improves the condenser efficiency.

Run your car hard for long enough to bring the catalyst up to operating temperature, stop the engine, and then place your hand in the approximate area of the rear mounted condenser. Now repeat the procedure but place your hand in the approximate position of the ZIMS condenser.

Think for minute, what would your opinion be had Porsche placed the 964/993 condenser in the rear of the wheelwell and an aftermarket supplier came up with a kit to move it to Porsche's actual choice?

No market for the kit?

Sure.

I think the point was, while you may be theoretically correct, in practical terms, it just doesn't matter. It sounds to me like Eric has done the math, and you haven't. Just saying.

Me, I'm waiting to make a quick observation once I get up and running, but I'm not really concerned. I doubt it's a problem, and it's easily fixed if it is.

your "no cost" solution is actually very expensive to me -- In terms of the number of hours it would take me to start the bracket fabrication process over again.

Didn't realize the kit came with insulation. Good to know. I'll wait and see what comes before I buy the stuff Ronnie used. Did you have difficulty getting the box back in?

Another question. On what fittings do you use Nylog? I noticed the service port adapter seems to be a flare fitting. Should I use Nylog on the face of the flare? Or on the threads? Or not at all?

I've noted others recommend NOT using it on o-rings.

Near Eagle?

Just picked up my '78 from there, on loan to my nephew for awhile.

I doubt that Boise climate will be a challenge for your system even if there is degradation from the radiant heat.

I think the evaporator box insulation kit was a separate item from the Rennaire evaporator itself; maybe $50 or so? I checked Rennaire's site and I don't see it mentioned anymore so maybe they've dropped it. I think the kit included a round foam seal for the port where the evap box exit hole met the hole to the interior ductwork, inside the smuggler's box.

The box was a minor struggle to remove and replace, a little more so after the insulation was added. It was a nice snug fit on final reassembly.

I'm going to search again for photos or posts from the project. The whole idea was to seal the evap box to prevent air leaks so as to get max efficiency from the fan, and also to insulate to keep the cold inside and to keep the underhood heat out. I'm sure you can deal with those issues separately; seal up the evap box, insulate the hell out of the smuggler's box and be sure the seal to the chassis is good.

BTW, I had to replace my temp control, and feeding that capillary tube through the console and firewall and into the evap box was a M@+#&r#@%er. You get my drift. Lots of finesse required. Not sure if you're getting into that?

I believe that's intended to be a thread sealant. I honestly can't remember if I used it on all areas of the joints. I think I fitted the O-rings dry then used the Nylog on the outside before running the nuts down.

Hi Nathan,
I used lots of Nylog on my system. I think of it as a thread lubricant, so the surfaces can seat properly. I think it is made from a/c refrigerant oil, and becomes quite viscous. Within reason I don't think it has much of a downside, such as clogging your system. OTOH I think Griff assembles his stuff dry, but he's a pro with lots of experience.
BTW, I really like your system, and IF my Wwested design does not perform well enough, yours will be my next step. I already have most of the parts and will just need one hose made.
Thanks for sharing,
Dave

Regarding goo on threads and o'rings - I use a thin smear of silicone grease on all of the o-rings and a tiny dab of nickle anti-seize on all threaded connections. I always use a drop of oil on the flare portion of any flare fitting (don't have those in my a/c system, however).

I think Dave nailed it. I think I did use a small amount to lube the O-rings too.

Refrigeration Technologies: Products: Nylog Blue

Oh look, my 134a showed up todayhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434591675.jpg