Question list for buying a used car

[racemor]

Hello. I am considering buying a daily driver to go along with my 911 and have been looking at a couple of E36 BMWs. While talking to the current owners of these cars I have been trying to come up with a basic list of questions to ask that will help find out the condition of these cars, assuming that they will tell me the truth. I think most of us here have bought our cars second hand (at least!) and have been through this before. Here are a few that I have come up with, anyone want to add to the list? I am looking for thoughts that apply to all cars, not model specific.

- are you the original owner
- if not, how long have you had the car and how many miles since purchased
- why are you selling
- do you have service records
- has the car had a pre-purchase inspection
- cosmetic/paint condition/rust, dents, chips, door dings, etc.
- list of modifications such as radio swap, suspension or engine mods
- has the car gone through emissions testing

Tom

[racemor]

(bump) Any thoughts?

Tom

[patalive]

Has the car been tracked?
How often do you change the oil/filter
Which shop do you use for your work?

Of course, you get into model specific questions, based on experience and research - for SCs, for example, pop off, rubber center clutch, tensioners, oil cooler mods, 915 rebuilds, etc, etc,
-
When I am chatting with a seller, I try to get an idea if he is a "real" car person or just has a "badge". Usually, pretty easy to determine. But you really have do the research on the Internet.

[Jim Richards]

Hi Tom, some additional ideas.

Current vehicle mileage?
Accidents and/or any bodywork done?
What optional eqiopment?
Who did they take the car to for maintenance?
VIN (for CARFAX check)?
Title clear?

[joeycatt]

Jeepers, you guys must buy much better cars than I do....

Here's my list:
1) So, how long was the car under water?
2) Did the fire spread quickly?
3) Was anyone hurt in that wreck?
4) Was the truck that hit you, going over 70mph?
5) What years did Porsche use the hail-textured targa bar?

[Rot 911]

Borrowed from the Rennlist FAQ:
Here it is. . .
NAME/ADDRESS/PHONE
. Car _________________________________
.
. Price _______________________________
.

DATE:

== PHONE ================================================== ===================
VIN ____________________

Miles ___________________________
How Long Owned __________________ How Many Owners ____________________
Records _________________________ Where maintained ___________________
Color ___________________________ Last Paint Job _____________________
Interior Color___________________

Wheel sizes _________ Tire sizes _________ [ ] Original Color
[ ] Original Engine [ ] 5 speed manual Induction ____________
[ ] Air Conditioning [ ] Alarm Radio ________________
[ ] Large Fuel Tank [ ] Gasoline Heater
[ ] Electric Windows [ ] Electric Antenna
Why Selling, Notes:


== RECEIPTS ================================================== ================
[ ] Carrera Tens'ners Last Overhaul ____________
[ ] Rebuilt Inj'n pump (mfi)
[ ] Shuffle Pin (f) [ ] RaceWare Studs (f) [ ] Timeserts (f)

Compression 1:____ 2:____ 3:____ 4:____ 5:____ 6:____

== LONG DISTANCE ================================================== ===========
Have the owner send receipts and pictures.
If you can, have the owner send a videotape. The tape should
cover the following:
- Walk around the car, SLOWLY
- Get closes-up (check for rust & mating) of:
headlights, door seams (door closed), hood, trunk,
fuel filler,
- Get under-car shots including:
suspension pickups (front and rear), jack receiver area, and
tortion bar tubes (under car).
- Interior shots (take-off targa top, if applicable). Get:
front seat, rear seat, dash, instruments, console (if
applicable) carpeting
- Engine compartment
- Trunk area (lift carpet around batteries).
Have owner take the car to a mechanic.
Maybe have owner take the car to a body shop (check for rust).

Check seams for evenness and for rust (portal closed)
[ ] left door [ ] right door [ ] fuel filler flap
[ ] hood (mating) [ ] trunk

Check for rust (under car):
[ ] left jack receiver [ ] right jack receiver
[ ] front suspension [ ] rear suspension
[ ] headlights [ ] tail lights [ ] under windshield
[ ] trunk area (lift carpet around batteries)

Interior (take-off targa top, if applicable)
[ ] front seats [ ] rear seats [ ] dash
[ ] carpeting

(RECEIPTS, MECHANIC)

== INSPECTION (bring magnet, ice pick, flashlight) ===========================
Name ____________________ Phone ____________________ Car ___________________

GENERAL
A B C D F Paint, chrome, trim A B C D F Rubber
A B C D F Dents/Dings A B C D F Undercoat all around (e)

LEFT SIDE DOOR: VIN Drivers door jamb (post '69) ____________________
A B C D F Mating A B C D F Edge, bottom (r)
A B C D F Hinge A B C D F Strike Plate (r)
A B C D F Jack receiver (r) A B C D F Underside rocker panel (r)
A B C D F Side windows & seals A B C D F Body under windshield (r)

TOP
A B C D F Targa top seal A B C D F Targa top condition

LEFT FRONT FENDER: VIN Windshield post (post '69) ____________________
A B C D F Tire condition A B C D F Fender Lip Texture (a)
A B C D F Fuel filler (r)

TRUNK: VIN (post '73) ____________________
A B C D F Headlights (pull out, rust & bracket squareness)
A B C D F Cross-member in front of gas tank (been beaten flat?)
A B C D F Suspension pickups under car L&R (r)
A B C D F trunk lid: fit (r) A B C D F trunk lid stop (r)
A B C D F Battery Box (r) A B C D F Front bumper - fit
A B C D F Spare tire A B C D F Jack and toolkit

RIGHT FRONT FENDER
A B C D F Tire condition A B C D F Fender Lip Texture (a)

RIGHT SIDE DOOR
A B C D F Mating A B C D F Edge, bottom (r)
A B C D F Hinge A B C D F Strike Plate (r)
A B C D F Jack receiver (r) A B C D F Underside rocker panel (r)
A B C D F Side windows & seals A B C D F Body under windshield (r)

RIGHT REAR FENDER
A B C D F Tire condition A B C D F Sight along body (accident)
A B C D F Suspension Pickups (d) A B C D F Texture on fender lip (a)
A B C D F Pinch Welds (g)

ENGINE LID / COMPARTMENT: VIN Under hood (pre '74) ____________________
Engine number (vertical fan housing) ____________________

A B C D F General condition A B C D F Belts
A B C D F Oil leaks A B C D F Transmission fluid leaks
A B C D F Exhaust system A B C D F Rear Valence (accident)

A B C D F Tail & parking lights A B C D F Brake lights, signals
A B C D F Backup lights A B C D F Seams/Fit (accident)

LEFT REAR FENDER
A B C D F Tire condition A B C D F Sight along body (c)
A B C D F Suspension Pickup (d) A B C D F Texture on fender lip (a)
A B C D F Pinch Welds (g)

INTERIOR:
[ ] Leather [ ] Sport seats [ ] Head Rests
A B C D F Front Seats A B C D F Rear Seats
A B C D F Carpeting A B C D F Floor pan/pedals (r)
A B C D F Air Condonditioner A B C D F headliner
A B C D F Dashboard A B C D F Seat adjustment (L&R)

== TEST DRIVE ================================================== ==============
A B C D F Starting A B C D F Acceleration A B C D F Braking
A B C D F Alignment A B C D F Steering 2 3 4 5 Synchros

A B C D F Clutch pedal free play A B C D F Brake Pedal Firmness
A B C D F Clutch slippage A B C D F Idle (fluctuations)
A B C D F Valve sounds A B C D F Clutch chatter
A B C D F Other strange sounds A B C D F Blip throttle (miss=inj'n,
_________ Oil pressure (warm) smoke=valve guides)

== MECHANIC ================================================== ================
Name ____________________ Phone ____________________ Car ________________
Mechanic ________________ Phone ____________________

Everything required to bring the car to street-concours, itemized and costed

1:____ 2:____ 3:____ 4:____ 5:____ 6:____ compression (130-170 +- 15%)
1:____ 2:____ 3:____ 4:____ 5:____ 6:____ leakdown (< 3-5%, 10% max)

[ ] Numbers Match [ ] Engine number match [ ] Worn Valve Guides

[ ] Carrera Chain Tensioners [ ] Spring Centered Clutch (b)
A B C D F Tie rod ends A B C D F CV joints
A B C D F Ball Joints A B C D F Bushings
A B C D F Shock absorbers/struts A B C D F Brake lines

A B C D F Structural Rust A B C D F Cosmetic Rust
A B C D F Front susp. attachment A B C D F Rear susp. attachment
A B C D F Torsion bar tubes (F&R) A B C D F Lower control arms (F&R)
A B C D F Floor pan-(F&R) A B C D F Floor pan-battery area


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Resolution:
VINs / Engine No. Match
Rust
Accidents
Mechanical Condition

(a) since 1969
(b) 911SC only
(c) check for accident damage
(d) The rear suspention pickups are bolted to the pan under the car
roughly aligned with the torsion bar tubes -- check for rust.
(e) Fresh undercoat is bad. If you see it, check to see what mischief
it covers.
(f) These are not required if the car isn't a 2.7 liter or heavily
built-up car.
(g) Make sure the pinch welds aren't bulging or separating.
(r) check for rust

[fig911]

very nice check list...I could use one of those. Off to Rennlist I go.

[patalive]

I like joeycatt's list better!

[racemor]

Sounds like Joeycatt's SC may have needed a little work.

Thanks guys. Kurt, that's a good list. Wonder if there is anything BMW specific out there.

Tom

[LeeH]

"I'm calling about the car (make/model ommitted on purpose) you have for sale."

Frequently the response will be, "Which one?"

"Is this your personal car or are you a dealer/broker?"

It's amazing how many of the used car ads in the paper have been placed by curbstoners - people who deal in used cars illegally. I'm all for free trade and think we should be able to by and sell cars just like any other item, but the fact is that dealing in cars without a license is illegal.

My experience is that cars sold this way are frequently problem cars (totalled, clocked, etc). When I was shopping for our last beater car, a guy had me convinced he was selling his son's car. After we went in his house to do some paperwork, it became apparent he was a dealer - lots of keys, titles, etc on the kitchen table. I told him I'd be back after checking the carfax. It had been clocked AND totalled.

[Eric Coffey]

Here is the preliminary (911-specific) pre-purchase questions list that I have created. Most of the questions apply to any car though:


*What is the VIN number?
*What are the exterior & interior colors?
*How many original miles are on the car?
*Does the car have a clean title and Carfax report?
*Do you have any or all of the books and service records?
*Do you know how many owners the car has had?
*What are the factory option codes? (should be on a sticker under hood, or in service/owners manual)
*Is the tail and front spoiler factory Porsche?
*Has the car had ANY paint or body work?
*What is the condition of the paint (any fading, peeling, cracking, etc.)?
*Are there ANY dings or dents?
*Is the interior leather, partial leather, or leatherette?
*Does the car have “standard” or “sport” seats?
*Are there ANY cracks or warps in the dashboard or rear parcel shelf?
*Are there any torn, stained, burned, or warped interior surfaces/carpet/headliner?
*Does the car have it’s original engine and transmission?
*Does the gearbox operate smoothly (synchros/linkage, etc. in good condition)?
*Is the car equipped with a limited slip differential?
*Are there ANY engine or transmission oil leaks?
*what is the approximate oil consumption?
*Does the car ever smoke (on start up or under acceleration)?
*Is there ANY rust?
*Has the car had any recent major mechanical work (rebuild, valve job, clutch, etc.)?
*Are there any current major or minor mechanical problems?
*Are there any current major or minor electrical problems?
*Do you know when the following were last replaced: (brake pads, belts, plugs, plug wires, cap/rotor, clutch, shocks, oil, tranny oil, brake fluid, etc.)?
*Do you know when the last valve adjust was done?
*Are the wheels factory Fuchs alloys or replicas?
*Do you know what size the wheels are (16” x 7’s & 8’s for example)?
*How much tread (percentage-wise) do the tires have left?
*Is there ANYTHING on the car that is non-functional (lights, switches, gauges, hood shocks, etc.)?
*Are there any after-market/performance parts on the car (SSI’s, DME chip, etc.)?
*Are there any chips or cracks in the windshield?
*Does the A/C blow cold?
*Does the car still have the factory tool kit, jack, spare, and compressor?
*Are there any items not listed that come with the car (car cover, shop manuals, etc.)?

[Joe911]

Wayne as been trying to promote the BMW list. Try over there - unless you already have.