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SWB 911 R build with 912 roots..

Hi guys,

I recently found (2.4 miles from my home) a MY '68 912 5- speed coupe with 5 instrument dash. I bought it 2 days ago. I'm very excited. I've been searching for an early 911 and this is the next best thing for me.

It is missing the original motor but came with it's original 5 speed. It's a solid car imo.
Color is sepia brown which i really like. The car was bough by the PO in FL 2 years ago as it is today, missing its 4 cyl motor, original paint stripped and to be built into a racer with flat 6 engine. This obviously never materialized.

I want to build as faithful a recreation 911R as i reasonably can out of this swb 912.
I've read many time about Porsche "shuffling" serial numbers during their homologation of the 911R so why not build a 911R out of a 912. (a reach i know)

I hope i can count on this group for advice as I'll be starting this project as soon as i get another project out of the way and make the needed room in my little shop.

Thanks in advance,

Matt









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Matt Mariani, Philly Pa IG: matt_mariani_rsc
[B]1983 Super Carrera Coupe 'Mad Max'
1969 911E targa Crystal Blue / Black (selling)
1968 SWB 912 "Stinger 912R 1680 lbs
1977 911S coupe "Bandit" all original for now
Old 06-28-2015, 04:53 AM
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Goog luck

Looks like you have a pretty solid base to start from. Good luck with the project!

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Old 06-28-2015, 05:24 AM
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Nice buy Matt
Old 06-28-2015, 05:29 AM
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I have been working on the same thing for the past few years, 68 912 convert to 911r. The only thing to do is switch engine mounts and figure out how/where to mount the oil tank. I would reccomend to patch sheetmetal rather than replace major panels. It is easier to keep the panel fit and is cheaper. I'm going to start posting progress on mine soon..
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Old 06-28-2015, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotiagreg View Post
Looks like you have a pretty solid base to start from. Good luck with the project!

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Great, thanks. Floors are solid but front suspension pan needs replacement. I need to source the best at the best price. I think OE is available but probably more$
Doors are very solid, rockers need a little work too. I'll show more about this when i get started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trooper View Post
Nice buy Matt
Thank you $5500 plus $50 for the Uhaul. Not bad imo with that 5 speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gestalt1 View Post
I have been working on the same thing for the past few years, 68 912 convert to 911r. The only thing to do is switch engine mounts and figure out how/where to mount the oil tank. I would reccomend to patch sheetmetal rather than replace major panels. It is easier to keep the panel fit and is cheaper. I'm going to start posting progress on mine soon..
Thank you gestalt1, we will talk i'm sure. I'll do the simpler things needing to be done for now i.e. front sus pan and rockers for starters. Then I'll need to tackle the oil res issue, much to research on that and how i'll attack this project.

I love this SWB !

Your help is very much appreciated, thanks again. I'm really excited










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Matt Mariani, Philly Pa IG: matt_mariani_rsc
[B]1983 Super Carrera Coupe 'Mad Max'
1969 911E targa Crystal Blue / Black (selling)
1968 SWB 912 "Stinger 912R 1680 lbs
1977 911S coupe "Bandit" all original for now
Old 06-28-2015, 01:31 PM
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Great project... i think that's the perfect platform for a cool R build.. Have fun!!
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Old 06-28-2015, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbell959 View Post
Great project... i think that's the perfect platform for a cool R build.. Have fun!!
Thanks I agree.

I had a few hours to get started today. I've just been thinking about the approach.(fun part)

I made a tool today to make my own 3.25" long x 5/16" louvers, It only took a focused 2 hours.

My 912 "Stinger" (thought of this today due to exhaust it will have) concept will be clean and hopefully a tasteful addition to the great Porsches owned by members here. It's not going to be a faithful R tribute build (i need more freedom) but rather a custom and not a Porsche "rat rod" or outlaw. But it will be very light and very fast.

Motor:
I'm going with a custom Auto Craft air cooled, dry sump, flat four I will build (No VW parts!) with 230 HP in NA form. It will be robust enough to be turbo charged but i must decide on this beforehand due to compression ratio as you guys all know.

Have a great night. -Matt








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Matt Mariani, Philly Pa IG: matt_mariani_rsc
[B]1983 Super Carrera Coupe 'Mad Max'
1969 911E targa Crystal Blue / Black (selling)
1968 SWB 912 "Stinger 912R 1680 lbs
1977 911S coupe "Bandit" all original for now

Last edited by The Fixer; 08-01-2015 at 06:28 AM..
Old 07-22-2015, 05:53 PM
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I'm in the stands cheering u on and picking up scraps of knowledge for my projects. . Thanks for posting and great start.
Old 07-22-2015, 06:42 PM
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Holy cow, this is cool!
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Old 07-22-2015, 07:36 PM
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Now this looks like it could be a really cool build ....subscribed
Old 07-23-2015, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagecarlover View Post
I'm in the stands cheering u on and picking up scraps of knowledge for my projects. . Thanks for posting and great start.
Ditto, you're a great dude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leland Pate View Post
Holy cow, this is cool!
I dig your Ronaldus Magnus quote.


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Originally Posted by Andreas Johnsen View Post
Now this looks like it could be a really cool build ....subscribed
I'm excited too. These light motors make 400 RWHP running 20 psi turbo boost.
That would be insane. Dial it back for 350, still insane.

Thinking this non galvanized early car could weigh in around 1875 lbs? No idea, only owned an SC and 3.2.. (hot dip galvanizing adds about 200 lbs i would guess)

I'll share the other renderings soon, Thanks again for the encouragement.-Matt

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Matt Mariani, Philly Pa IG: matt_mariani_rsc
[B]1983 Super Carrera Coupe 'Mad Max'
1969 911E targa Crystal Blue / Black (selling)
1968 SWB 912 "Stinger 912R 1680 lbs
1977 911S coupe "Bandit" all original for now
Old 07-23-2015, 07:23 AM
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912r

Hi, Matt

Great project theme! On my fantasy dream fleet is a superlite SWB 912R with a big HP, big bore, four. I am excited to watch this one unfold!

Nice free hand sketching abilities. Avons on steelies, nice, firmly plants the vehicle in the era. I like the direction of no emblems and lettering, the 911 is such an iconic classic design it doesn't need any badges. Exhaust filler plate, no distracting holes or features, I have the filler plate cut for mine but not welded in yet.

My personal feeling on the style of louvers, and there is no right or wrong here, its all fun. When I look at the louver pattern you have on your sketch, I think more of American hot rod, all equal short length and laid out in a geometric pattern. The pattern you have laid out on the actual deck is a bit more old skool Euro style feel to me. Couple different lengths and overall longer length. I have always liked the louvers on the 30's Autounions and later Porsche 550's, where the length of the louvered varied. I would not be afraid to cut the under lying structure to achieve the look you want. Ok, maybe I have spent to much time thinking about deck lid's, I have two additional deck lids waiting for different louver treatments.

I also like your home built louver punch, nicely done, what are you using on the die side.

Looking forward to more details on that engine.

Cheering you on as well
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Old 07-23-2015, 12:16 PM
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Sub'd! Very cool. I respect your creativity because I struggle in that area. My how things have changed, I bought a 71 roller 2 1/2 years ago for the same price and while it didn't have the tranny, it also didn't require any rust repair and had a decent cheap enamel paint job on it.
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Old 07-23-2015, 12:48 PM
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Thanks Tom,

Louver layout:
(i was thinking Abarth Carrera when drawing them) The Abarths looked awkward to me too. But there is a relationship with the louver size and layout (an alignment) with the verticals of the ventilation grill Butzi's hand drew.

I drew them too small in my haste (not to scale or perspective was too forced)
At 3.25" long they will look right i think. I'll punch them soon after i do some welding for a Pelican member, I have to strip the old paint off the lid first too.

The louvers are for function they are to be located where they draw hot air away from the motor when the car is in motion (low pressure areas)

There will also be a lot more louver-ing in the "center section" between the bumpers.
(but below the engine seal line to help the cylinders cool.

I will use the 3.25" louvers because any larger (like drawn on my 3D study on the lid) and they tend to bend easily and generally go out of straight.
This leads to paint failure.

I want it able to take a hit from my son's basketball

The die:

It's cut from 1/2 alum plate and placed in a vise.

But i also have used hard woods for the die and may use Osage Orange for this one. This is because for a one off project it will last and is easier of the lid metal.
(less gauging) White Oak or Ash wood are also plenty hard enough to last a while.



RD911T,

I appreciate the kind words of encouragement. You Can teach yourself to think in 3D.
It just takes practice. You could also use photoshop or similar.

This car needs a lot of attention. I need to do a lot just to start.

The underside of the tub is so cruddy. It looks to have that old tar like Wesley's Undercoating..mess. It must be completely taken down cleaned, panels straightened and rebuilt. I don't like taking over someone else's project that wasn't finished. It makes it harder for me. I prefer to bag / label everything..making mental notes.
But SWB cars are hard to come by.
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Matt Mariani, Philly Pa IG: matt_mariani_rsc
[B]1983 Super Carrera Coupe 'Mad Max'
1969 911E targa Crystal Blue / Black (selling)
1968 SWB 912 "Stinger 912R 1680 lbs
1977 911S coupe "Bandit" all original for now

Last edited by The Fixer; 07-23-2015 at 02:14 PM.. Reason: clarity
Old 07-23-2015, 02:04 PM
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I just spent .5 hrs filing and belt sanded the punch to refine it.
Louvers look much better..but i want to do many test louvers to know that
there isn't a asymmetrical shape thing going on.
Have a good night race fans.


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Matt Mariani, Philly Pa IG: matt_mariani_rsc
[B]1983 Super Carrera Coupe 'Mad Max'
1969 911E targa Crystal Blue / Black (selling)
1968 SWB 912 "Stinger 912R 1680 lbs
1977 911S coupe "Bandit" all original for now
Old 07-23-2015, 03:42 PM
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Is the motor one of Pauter's ? I like the path your headed down, and if you decide to swap the exterior door handles for the R fiberglass ones I am a buyer. Have fun!
'
Dave
Old 07-23-2015, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fixer View Post

Thinking this non galvanized early car could weigh in around 1875 lbs? No idea, only owned an SC and 3.2.. (hot dip galvanizing adds about 200 lbs i would guess)

The 'galvanised' 911s were produced from a coated steel sheet produced by Thyssen and by 'Hot Dip' standards the additional weigh is very low. I don't believe any of the Class A Surfaces such as the roof or rear fenders used this material.

An early 911S had a typical Kerb Weight of around 1060kg, an SC is typically 1160kg

This is 224lbs and if you look at all of the impact bumper mounts, air pump, larger wheels and brakes and other added parts the shell may not be too different.

Last edited by chris_seven; 07-23-2015 at 11:32 PM..
Old 07-23-2015, 11:30 PM
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Admittedly not the biggest SWB fan, but every now an then one comes along that just moves me.. think your project may be one those!

Louvers should be really cool.. I've had them in the tag panel of my 73S since the early 90's when I kept cooking the paint off during track events.. added the louvers, problem solved.

Tell us more about the 4cyl engine for this project.. I have a 356 Outlaw project that I'd like to get a bit more grunt out of as well short of adding a flat-6.. and before someone mentions it, a Polo 4cyl isn't event a con$ideration for me!

Good luck with your build!
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Old 07-26-2015, 09:12 AM
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Hella project, take your time and good luck.
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Old 07-26-2015, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyn-hawn View Post
Is the motor one of Pauter's ? I like the path your headed down, and if you decide to swap the exterior door handles for the R fiberglass ones I am a buyer. Have fun!
'
Dave
Dave, I'm speaking with Auto Craft. They manufacture excellent motors. I want to build this myself though and shall be ordering all parts to be delivered.
With a Porsche this light 230 BHP is plenty to suck the headlights out of many cars on the road. 25 years ago i built a motor for a Karmann Ghia that would hang with my Buddy Brandon's 535i up to about 3rd gear. Those days are much different, now these "Porsche derived" motors can develop big power but must be assembled right or they won't last. I am deciding if i want to "go big" and turbo charge (300-400 rwhp).
I can't see my original 901 TA holding up though and i really want to keep the 901 box. Decisions, decisions

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_seven View Post
The 'galvanised' 911s were produced from a coated steel sheet produced by Thyssen and by 'Hot Dip' standards the additional weigh is very low. I don't believe any of the Class A Surfaces such as the roof or rear fenders used this material.

An early 911S had a typical Kerb Weight of around 1060kg, an SC is typically 1160kg

This is 224lbs and if you look at all of the impact bumper mounts, air pump, larger wheels and brakes and other added parts the shell may not be too different.
1650 kilograms = 3600 pounds? I think they weigh 2200 lbs

I filled a gallon paint bucket with zinc powder and it weighed about 45 lbs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onboost View Post
Admittedly not the biggest SWB fan, but every now an then one comes along that just moves me.. think your project may be one those!

Louvers should be really cool.. I've had them in the tag panel of my 73S since the early 90's when I kept cooking the paint off during track events.. added the louvers, problem solved.

Tell us more about the 4cyl engine for this project.. I have a 356 Outlaw project that I'd like to get a bit more grunt out of as well short of adding a flat-6.. and before someone mentions it, a Polo 4cyl isn't event a con$ideration for me!

Good luck with your build!
There are a lot of details regarding these engines. To much to get into actually. But It will likely be a 2.2L - 2.4L but could be as big as a 2.8L 4. It won't matter to the rev ability they tell me. I want it to rev to 7500 safely.

The custom aluminum racing case (zero porosity) has built in windage tray and additional windage tray and along with its halves has a removable front and rear section. Cam timing can be changed without splitting the halves. It is set up for dry sump oil lube (9 qts) and oil cooling and capable of handling over 750 BHP.

The crank will likely be made by SCAT out of solid billet 4340 and counter weighted.

The rods will be Carrillo most likely with Porsche journals.

The cylinders are capababe of withstanding 60,000 psi and can be Nikisil coated, The fins are milled not cast and very pretty, MSD ignition, Weber or fuel injection if i turbo charge.

Leaning toward NA but how crazy would a 4 cylinder 912 turbo be with up to 400 RWHP? I would dial it way back for daily use. I will not be able to fit much rubber inside this SWB car so turbo-ing seems a bit out there. Wouldn't be able to use the power that safely but would be very fun in a straight line.

I will likely use a 930 fan (but like the earlier 4 blade look better) but may go with a 13 blade 964 fan to pump the air best.

?: Does anyone have data on the early 4 blade type fan seen above on the Carrera 4 cam motor in term of how well it moves air. It doesn't look like it would work well but must.. I want that look and don't like the late 13 blade fan look but know it works..
Any help with this is appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bob View Post
Hella project, take your time and good luck.
Thanks Joe Bob, will PM when i need Porsche graphics



The color i hope you guys will like. The car is sepia and i don't think it will work for this project.

I am going with a non metallic dark grey I really like, 6" steel wheels (very light) will be black powder coat, tires Avon, the exhaust I will make myself to look like the Abarth Carrera. If turbo charged the exhaust won't be as nice and things in the rear will change.

If NA I will paint the stinger exhaust that light grey that looks odd to everyone but
Porsche People.

Have a great night everyone.

Please Note: Because this is a SWB car i want to go with a better balanced 4 cylinder setup. It would probably cost less to source a 911 motor which would hang out
more and weigh more. Looking at this cute little car i think the powerful 4 makes sense since it was born a 4.
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Matt Mariani, Philly Pa IG: matt_mariani_rsc
[B]1983 Super Carrera Coupe 'Mad Max'
1969 911E targa Crystal Blue / Black (selling)
1968 SWB 912 "Stinger 912R 1680 lbs
1977 911S coupe "Bandit" all original for now

Last edited by The Fixer; 08-05-2015 at 04:14 PM.. Reason: clarity
Old 07-26-2015, 01:14 PM
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