Anyone here backdate a 964?

[TT Oversteer]

I am currently at a crossroads with my '77 3.2 conversion. I've gone through the whole car and it's working as good as it ever has. I really like the car BUT, as is always the case, I WANT MORE! I'm not sure spending more resources on this particular car would be worthwile as it is a very nice car and worth close to what I have invested in it. In other words I could probably trade the car off and get out gracefully rather than start sinking lots more cash into it that I will never see when it comes time to sell.

So here's the dilemma: In my fantasy world I would like a lightweight longhood bodied car with a 3.6 and G-50. One that is fully galvanized and rust free. One that is CA smog exempt or at least smog compliant. To build this car is well beyond my time and money budget.

Do I go with an early body and install the 3.6 mated to a 915 then update the brakes, suspension, wheels & tires, flares, etc and enjoy smog exemption but deal with potential rust issues and a lot of build time/expense?

Or do I find a relatively cheap and mechanically sound 964 that has maybe suffered some cosmetic body damage and backdate it? The car would be smog compliant and already have the G-50, better brakes, advanced suspension, etc. The objective then would be to gut the car of all unnecessary luxury items (weight) and install some fiberglass fenders, hood, spoiler/bumpers to emulate say an early RS. Some Alton 17 in. Fuchs replicas would complete the package.

How hard would this be to do? Are the external dimensions anywhere close to the old school 911? Would any of the body panels fit? What would the approximate weight of the car be after stripping off all the unnecessary crap?

Would the end result be worth the effort? Would the car be any more fun to drive compared to a stock 964? How would it compare to an early car with a 3.6 conversion? Just trying to think outside the box here. Any comments appreciated.

[TRE Cup]

we are in the process of converting an ex track 964 into a 73 RS style car right now. The devil is in the details, as well as the extra expense, when compared to backdating a 74-89 model
The rocker panels on the 964 have large cut outs for the rear suspension , indentations that run the length of the rocker, a deep trunk area, differently shaped rear lamp mounting areas, etc etc etc. Also the a/c and oil lines are really different and exposed when you remove the C2/4 outer rocker plastic covers. The suspension offset dictates a lot of positive offset to the rims, making the wheels look oddly skinny. That is one reason some have resorted to a 73 RSR look to overcome this
We will post some of these details in the weeks to come. It will make for an exciting new look to what was a somewhat tired looking racer

[jhynesrockmtn]

I thought a member here had "backdated" a 964 C4 that was featured in Excellence a couple of years ago and for sale on the Pelican Board.

[TRE Cup]

Yes, that was Porsche Doc , and he did a fine job making a 73 RSR out of a C4. He posted a lot of pics of the build on this site

[jhynesrockmtn]

Found it

Update C4 RSR Project

[TT Oversteer]

Wow! That is freaking amazing! Thanks for digging up the link. Obviously quite a bit to this job which is why I haven't seen many like it around.

[TT Oversteer]

That low hanging front splitter looks like a bit of a compromise but the rear looks perfect. I can see how the widebody solves the problem of wheel offset. Doc never did explain how they did the rockers. They mentioned 2600lbs. as being close to the minimum weight for a stripped 964. Can't wait to see some pics of the TRE project.

[nameisbauer]

I remember a great article in one of those UK mags. Autofarm? They had custom Fuchs-style wheels that fit the 964 offset.

[tijnes]

I'm in the middle of a backdate, pretty much the way described in the original post.

Started with a 90 964 that got hit in the drivers side front. 70K miles with recent topend and g50 with LSD. My goal is to make more of daily driver but with a classic look. The RSR look is to aggressive for me and so I'm leaning more towards a RS/R combination.

As TRE said the "narrow"-look does create problems due to the suspension changes. I've found ways to work around most issues and have made compromises along the way. I'm obviously not a pro shop and so my end result does not have to be a perfect replica. The wheels are a bit of a problem as of yet. AFAIK the replica Fuchs builders have not completed a set for the 964. So far the only ones I've seen are the Paul Stevens wheels and they are IMO terrible and not for sale.

The FG panels fit fine but the fr. fenders are a lot of work. I will not use them again ever. Installing the H4's took more than two days and was/is a major PITA. If I do this again I will use steel only. Much less time consuming and worth every penny.

Did I mention I'm doing this on a budget. The goal will be to get it all done under $20K, price of car and everything else included. It'll be very close. The replica sport seats and the wheels are the big expenses.

Here's some pics. Sorry for the lousy quality, I keep forgetting to bring a real camera.

[karlusmagnus]

Nice work, tijnes. I also look forward to seeing your C4 project. And I agree about RSR ... perhaps ST/R type look. I guess Minilites won't work? Looks like Eric W.'s car beside yours.

[eimkeith]

We're resuming work on this one right now!

As Dave said , the devil really is in the details - lots of mods to make it appropriate, visually. (of course, this largely depends on where your personal line is for an appropriate backdate)

From the exterior (as in parking lot viewing), you can make a 964 resemble an early widebody car in almost every aspect save the front wheel offset and the tall narrow shifter tunnel.

[Chuck Grieb]

I think the UK magazine feature may have been about Paul Stephens:

http://www.psautoart.com/

[Hastohandlesnow]

I'm trying to find or build (er.., have built) a backdated 964 to early 70's (pre 74) 911T style. Anyone have any recommendations on shops in the U.S. that can do that type of work well? Paul Stephans in the U.K. does a very nice job, and it is exactly what I'm looking for, but I can't afford $100,000 on this.

http://www.psautoart.com/index.php?currPage=classifieds&uid=653

any thoughts appreciated! thanks

[nameisbauer]

PS autoart, Thats what I was thinking. They make the wheels i was speaking of.

[TRE Cup]

This is a work in progress. Ex- PCA east coast racing RS America that is now being backdated to RS lightweight look.
The client wished to stay with black trim and the color is original 93 tint. Will post more pics as the weeks progress.

Note the absence of the lower front tub section in front and no C2 body indentations, rear quarter panel fender cut outs- This has all been backdated as well.

[TRE Cup]

[kokolyia]

What rear bumpers are you using? Do they fit without modification to a 964? Also, what is to be done to the rocker panels for an rsr conversion?

[TRE Cup]

We supplied the bumpers for the polar silver car. 73 RS front and rear. It was a considerable amount of work to get everything just right on the car
It is actually easier to build a 73 RSR look than RS as you can opt to leave the front tub alone and use the chin splitter option of the 73 RSR

here is the polar silver car completed





and here is a 73 RSR showing the add on front chin splitter extension that hides the stock C2 front tub

[TRE Cup]

The rocker panels were back dated with the 65-89 outer panels and even the jack points were installed and reinforced