Does Porsche own the rights for the font?

[Jocke]

Or is it just the name Porsche, anybody nows??

Thanks
Jocke

[john walker's workshop]

yes, the whole damn font.

[Jocke]

Allright thanks for the quick answer.

So if I use it on, for example a webbpage itīs not leagle?

/J

[RickM]

You might get away with using the font but they will pursue you aggresively if you use their logo.

[MotoSook]

If you change the height and width ratio slightly, would they still have a case in court? They would have to argue that they own the rights to all ratios right???? Lawyers?

[911pcars]

Not as clear cut as one would think. I'll assume Porsche paid a design firm or developed the font inhouse, in which case, they own the design and the type face name (if any).

That said, in my research a few years ago to jump on the get-rich, develop software program bandwagon, as far as type faces go, one can copyright the font name (e.g. Helvetica, Garamond, Techno, etc.) and that is protected (zealously). One can even apply for a patent on the computer code to generate the design. The big type house guys like Adobe can do this. This prevents some jamoke like me from simply copying the entire Adobe typeface library, renaming each with a different name, then commercially selling it. Some company called Swift (sp) tried this a few years ago and were trounced in court (after making a killing, btw).

However, as I understand, since I'm far from the legal world, I could change a portion of the computer code and/or subtlely change the "look" of the type and call it my very own. That's what Bitstream and all the other type houses do with their version/rendition of Helvetica. Bitsteam calls theirs "Swiss". In the type world, name recognition is important. If, as a graphic designer, I want the type face "Impact", I'm not going to use an unknown copy and risk the resultant megabuck print job looking like the type face called "Crap". But I think I digressed.

Can I use the Porsche typeface to spell "relief" on this forum or in my memoirs and still remain within the law? Probably yes (but there are no absolutes in law). Otherwise, we're all under arrest for using "Arial" (a Helvetica knockoff) on the web. Can I use Porsche's logotype for a product called "wankers"? Probably not unless you get permission from Mr. or Mrs. Porsche, and there's two chances of that happening.

Better legal minds are free to enlighten us.

Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

[RickM]

I'll bet that Porsche has a design patent on each character or set of charaters. Protection would be as broad as they defined their field.

[John#6]

Eurostyle Extended No. 2 comes really close -- Try that

[JWest]

Current Porsche business plan:

1. Take knife
2. Cut off nose
3. Despite face
4. Build truck

[RickM]

LMAO....that was good, James.

[304065]

IP rights enforcement is a funny thing. . . once you establish it, you MUST prevent others from using your logotype or other protected matter, lest you be a victim of "genericide. . ." There is nothing wrong IMNSHO with Porsche protecting its logo, in an effort to prevent others from profiting from its use. Every time I walk down Canal Street I'm reminded of why this is the case, when I see some of the world's most highly protected logos applied to everything under the sun, and wonder whether there was a license fee paid. . . NOT!

On the other hand, if it is accurate that PCNA notified the PCA that they intended to crack down on our use of their logo on the websites, etc., I would suggest that they send a letter of apology to every US PCA member and enter into an irrevocable license agreement of infinte duration with the Porsche Club of America for the right to use their logo, typeface, trade dress, armchair and hunting dog in exchange for one pfennig and our continued good will! First the Cayenne, now this!

[thabaer]

Porsche didn't have the exclusive on Bauhaus design, there must be prior art for a similar font from the early 1900s that would be hard to tell from what Porsche uses.

[911pcars]

"Porsche didn't have the exclusive on Bauhaus design, there must be prior art for a similar font from the early 1900s that would be hard to tell from what Porsche uses."

True, but similar is not the same as identical. Helvetica "looks" like "Swiss" but is not identical, thus different in the eyes of the Library of Congress. It would be a hoot to discover the Porsche logotype has been in the public domain all this time, but not likely.

Sherwood

[JP911]

It is also possible, perhaps even likely, that the Porsche logo is not adherent to any conventional type font. The Porsche logo could be designed in a unique format. I work in advertising / design and have worked with several clients that started with a basic font but evolved it into a truly unique logo. Does the typeface used in the logo get used anywhere other than in "Porsche"?

[jim72911t]

This is quite enlightening and a little scary, at least in my case.

When I made the grille badges a couple of months ago, I designed a font that was similar to the Porsche font but not identical. As far as I know, the only numbers that Porsche used in their grille badges were 2, 4 and 7 (2.4, 2.7). I had to design every other number from scratch, which took a considerable amount of time.

Is it possible that Porsche could come after me for replicating a font that existed with three numbers but not with the other seven? (0,1,3,5,6,8,9)

I have tenative plans to make another batch of badges, but if it looks like I could get sued by Porsche I might think otherwise. As it stands now, I have VERY shallow pockets, but I'd certainly hate to be on the wrong side of a ruling that would stay with me for years.

Maybe it's time to talk to a lawyer.

Any thoughts?
Jim

[Zeke]

I have designed trademarks in the past for my own use being somewhat careful not to imitate anyone's TM shape or color scheme, even with differnt letters. Between copyright and registered trademark, you walk close to the flame if you use similar design. Eurobold extended does indeed come close to the factory logo. I used it in a business card years ago. It's a little thinner, you have to bold it up a stretch it out a little to be on the money. I have a website comming up that will use eurobold, www.zekebeck.com. I'm also using a modified Beck family crest (my last name Becker) which will have suggestions of the prancing horse crest. I am walking close to the flame, but I've walked there before.

[911pcars]

Jim,
I suppose Porsche could go after anyone they wanted to regardless of whether there was any true infringement. That's the priviledge of being the big kid on the block. I haven't seen the complete alpha-numeric type face designed by Porsche; or is it merely the logotype "P-O-R-S-C-H-E"? If it's just those letters, I don't see how they could claim infringement for numbers not yet designed. If there is an exact number design and someone duplicated it for a commercial product, there might be something there. If the typeface is a rendition of it, I don't see a problem, but....

....I suppose Porsche could go after anyone they wanted to regardless of whether .......

Maybe it depends on how much they felt the brand name is sullied or how pissy their suits happen to feel at this moment.

I don't know,
Sherwood

[nostatic]

I think it depends on how/what you are marketing. In theory, IP laws exist in part to prevent confusion in the marketplace. A simple example would be if I wanted to call my business "Disney". If I was running a plumbing shop in Ohio, I doubt I'd be infringing Disney's mark, as there is no way a consumer would see Disney on my plumbing shop and think I was a megamedia congolomerate. If however I was starting a production company, the lawyers would be on me like...well, like Disney lawyers.

In this case, is you buy the font, you should be able to use it in a mark as long as you are not creating confusion in the marketplace. So using it on your plumbing store stationary should be fine. But if you're selling P-car stuff? I think you're stomping on the line there.

The companies are in a tough position here. They really need to protect their intellectual property and marks, but they also need to not piss off their faithful fans. The web has really complicated this, as every porsche nut who makes a web site undoubtedly wants to use the font. So does Porsche shut everyone down to prevent dilution, or do they allow the enthusiasts to have their fun, while undoubtedly allowing some to profit and potentially damage the marquee (beyond the Cayenne).

Note I'm not a lawyer, but I sleep next to one, and I end up dealing with a fair amount of IP nonsense in my work...

The bottom line is there is no clear answer for 99% of these questions...the only way to answer it is in court.

[thabaer]

Originally posted by 911pcars
True, but similar is not the same as identical. Helvetica "looks" like "Swiss" but is not identical, thus different in the eyes of the Library of Congress.

I only meant that if you found a 1910-20s public domain font with the right feel, you're on solid ground. I assume Porsche paid for the design of and owns an original typeface.

Confirmed prior public domain (e.g. on file at the LOC) is not open to legal gameplaying, I've been through this before with product.

Now if you're wunna them poorists , pay up!

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally posted by nostatic

Note I'm not a lawyer, but I sleep next to one

Next to? Not with?


Sorry dude. You left yourself W-I-D-E open...