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Leland Pate's Avatar
 
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Targa top adjustment questions

Ok, since the recent targa top threads have surfaced, I thought I'd ask a few specific questions about my situation.

For starters, I reupholstered the top myself about 2 years ago. I didn't do an absolute perfect job, but it works "ok". Not bad for $150 vs. $800 anyway.

At any rate, My top has never sat properly (even before the rebuild) and now I'm wondering if there's anything I'm missing in regards to the adjustment of the top.

Here's the situation:

For starters, the corners on both sides of the front edge sit up too high. I have no idea if this can be fixed or not.
Here's a few pictures...


As you can see, the corners don't line up with the edges of the windsheild frame.
Is there anything I can do?

The two small vertical alignment pins don't have any adjustment value to them. They are fixed.
The windsheild seal is the original one so the deal with the superceded part number for new seals doesn't apply here.

After I read the thread about using a mallet to slightly "bend" the leading edge of the top to meet the frame, I tried it myself and had some pretty good luck with it. The top now looks much better from the front, but it isn't any quieter. Even though it doesn't "stick up" in the air like it did, the very edge of the vinyl lays on top of the windsheild frame as shown:



I think this must be what is making the "extreeeeemly" loud noise at highway speeds.

This brings me to my next point.

The rear end of the top sits much further than i think it should.
The other Targas that I've seen have a much smaller gap between the front of the targa bar and the vinyl top.

Here's a few pictures:




As you can see, there is a huge gap between the top and bar. There's even one section where the weatherstripping isn't even under the top.

Ok, so it's definately not far back far enough...

Is there anything I can do?
I've tightened the latches as far forward as possible...

I've messed with the adjustment on the rear pins...

What else can be done???
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Old 11-19-2002, 08:57 PM
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My top does the same thing on the drivers side on the front, but it is from the window frame and not the fit of the top. I adjusted the retaining clips on the top (several threads on this exist, but basically, you likely need to tighten them by getting the clip to fit closer to the fully extended top frame).

Supposedly there is a way to adjust the window frame, but I've not attempted this.

It looks like both the front and rear sets of retaining clips are skewed too far forward and this is why the rear seal is fitting so poorly -- this is a guess of course, but it is pretty easy to adjust them and see how it fits.
Rgds,
TT

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85 Carrera Targa
Old 11-19-2002, 09:17 PM
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Hmmm... I'm trying really hard to understand why those little clips could possibly cause my top to sit too high on the corners and too far forward.

I have tinkered with them in the past and I remember trying to adjust them to fit a tight as possible to the frame.
They won't adjust far enough to seat fully with the frame, but I've got them as far as they'll go.


Does anyone else have any ideas???
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Old 11-20-2002, 09:41 AM
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Waiting with Bated Breath

My top looks just the same, sits high at the front corners. What exactly are you bending with the hammer technique? Do you beat it in place or off the car?
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Old 11-20-2002, 09:56 AM
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Lee,

The front seating depth and rear 'gap' are interrelated ... so, by lowering the front ... the rear gap will be closed up! To that end, check under the two front alignment pins for one or more very thin shims, or just regular M10 washers ... try installing the pins without any shim or washer to see if the front edge will seat lower.
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Old 11-20-2002, 10:27 AM
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Hi Lee, I found adjusting my Targa top to take almost as long as it took to recover it. From your pictures I would say you have multiple interactions occuring. I have a couple of questions before I can make suggestions though. For the record I have recovered/ restored 2 Targa tops

1. when you recovered your top did you disassemble the outer
rib plates from the frame?

2. Did you dissasemble The latches from the frame? If so it could be possible that your latches had shims. One of the tops I did had shims and the other did not. The shims will provide aft direction adjustments the thicker the shim the further aft .
The Latch bolts allow for adjustment in the X-Y directions.

3. Did you replace your Targa window seals? To properly get those front corners down, those seals require micro trimming.
especially in those corners.

The front pins float they are thread into Aluminum floating nuts
and should be installed with Stainless steel Wave washers not shims or any other type of locking washer. Proper adjustment of latches will control the amount down force.

The rear pins are also adjustable if you remove tin cover plates you will see screws 3 of them. loosening these screws allows them to float. It looks like your pins need to be readjusted lower to raise the top and allow it to seat correctly.

After proper seal installation and trimming, Install and align rear Guide pins then install and align forward guide pins.

then install and adjust latches. glue your vinyl caps on when your completed.
and you will end up with this.

Good luck take your time.

Jorge (Targa Dude)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg rear edge.jpg (40.5 KB, 1620 views)
Old 11-20-2002, 11:43 AM
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Dammit Jorge did you have to set a benchmark with that picture?

Lee: I did exactly as you did and have about the same results. The fact is, we both should have stripped the top to the ribs (there are three, connected by cross straps) and set those up correctly on the car. This means loosening the pins at the front, which do float a bit side to side, and then loosening up the rear pins (3 bolts) and align the ribs at the back as well. Then adjust or replace the side to side crosswebs that hold the three ribs together. Next, the burlap, then then the final outer cover. Then fit again and adjust as needed.

If I understand right, the pins are a bit fat at the front. Have you tried a bit of grease on the pins to see if they will fit deeped into the holes? Is there any chance your seals are too high and are not sitting properly in the channels?

If you have a third-party rebuild the top, I fully endorse Cars Inc and the others to redo the tops. But more and more I believe that, to get the most for your money, one needs to find a local rebuilder who can redo the top. When you negotiate your deal, make sure they are aware that you intend to bring the car in, sans door panels, so that the final fit of the top can be performed. This of course is going to mean adjusting the window angle to the car, the angle of the window to the Targa side seals, and the limiter for the height to which the window can move.

All of this assumes near-new seals both on the car and on the Targa top itself.

John
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Old 11-20-2002, 01:20 PM
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Jorge,

Very good advise and can you show a pic of your front edge as well?

I assume that the same adjustments hold true if someone is not replacing the weatherstripping and just trying to make it fit better?

Thx,

Joe
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Old 11-20-2002, 01:26 PM
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Guys,

The front edge of a Targa top can be considered to be a four-point suspension with two outer locating pins and two latch assemblies. You don't really want to adjust just the two inner suspension points!

The '73 and earlier tops used NO spring washers between the pin and captive nuts ... however, zero to four very thin shims could be used for fine adjustments in the 'ride height' of the leading edge. The '73-style shims can be used with the '74 and later tops ... just as I found on a '74 top I bought used for my car and found with shims instead of a spring washer under the locating pins! It works quite well to adjust both latches and pins' height for an even fit on the leading edge of the top.
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Old 11-20-2002, 02:29 PM
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The best way to fix a sc targa? Sell it and buy a carrera coupe.
(Sorry Leland, I couldn't resist.)
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Old 11-20-2002, 02:49 PM
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Hi Joe,
I don't have pic of the front edge yet But I'll take one ,
and sure you could do all of these adjustments at any point in time. Adjusting the latches will require removal of the snap rivets and vinyl pads though.

Jorge (Targa Dude)

PS.
Check this site for problems and solutions
http://www.carsinc-nj.com/topproblems.html

Last edited by Targa Dude; 11-20-2002 at 04:47 PM..
Old 11-20-2002, 04:10 PM
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Thanks Jorge,
Now I'm totally embarassed to have posted close-ups of my top online. I feel like I've just been photographed naked with a carrot up my butt.


....well not really, but sort of.

Wow, your top looks nice!
When I reupholstered mine, I just replaced the vinyl and headliner. I didn't mess with the burlap. Now that you mention it, I guess I should have tried to realign the sections like you did.

I cannot understand how the latches can possibly have shims that move the top for and aft. The latches attach to the bottom. If you were to put shims in there it would "raise" the front of the top, right?
The seals are also new.
What do you mean by "micro trimming" the edges?

Jdub, I can try greasing the front pins but I don't think it'll do much.
Today I did remove the two pins and removed the "very thin washers". I gently drilled the hole slightly bigger to allow more movement of the pins.

One more thing... I also tried to readjust the front top clips. I've got them all as tight as they will go and they still don't seat fully against the top frame.
But here's the breakthrough... on the way home the top was ALLOT quieter for about ten minutes... then "WHOOOOOOOSH"... it started screamin' again. I am almost positive that those clips were just barely hanging on and finally let go of the top and it started howling again.
So, now I think I've found the source of the noise, although it still looks all wrong...

So, how can I make those clips grab better? I've got them as far back as they'll go and they are also brand new.
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Old 11-20-2002, 06:02 PM
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Recently sent mine off to Dan Petchel (Cars, Inc.). Yup, I spent the 8 large...but, my top came back looking and fitting like brand f***ing new! New German vinyl, new burlap, new webbing. No more wind noise either.

I'm lighter in the wallet, but damn....that top is cherry .
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Old 11-20-2002, 06:19 PM
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Well, I just walked in from tinkering with the top.
Here's what I did...

I toyed with the rear top pins. Jorge, both rear pins were at their highest (in relation to the top) position already.

I also removed both latches and put washers between the latch and the frame to in effect, draw the top closer to the windshield.

And possibly the biggest advancement... I Took a real hard look at the clips. The one clip that is right where most of the wind noise comes from was barely grabbing the top frame. I am pretty sure this little bugger is just letting go and allowing the top to come up when it catches air at high speed.
The clip was all the way to the stop, but, I was able to gently file a bit of material away to allow more adjustment. Now it sits better; not perfect, but better.

If it still lets go, I'll just file a bit more away.

I still have the insane gap at the rear of the top.
It just seems like there is no way to move the top "back".

There is no "for and aft" adjustment in the latches or the two front pins that I can see, so I'm still stuck on this one.

The help so far has really taught me allot and I thank you all for that.

And Jorge, please don't post any more pics of your top. You've already proven your point.

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Old 11-20-2002, 08:26 PM
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All of you guys are way ahead of me. I remember thinking when I recovered the top only that the burlap looked pretty soggy. I didn't want to get into a total rebuild at the time as I was afraid of my potential to screw it up. I am paying the price now.

As I understand it, there is a jig that pros use to align the plates and from there, put on the cross webs. Then the burlap, then the top etc. This way the top can be recovered independent of the car and still go on like new.

Sigh,
John
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Old 11-21-2002, 06:07 AM
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Jorge,
I sent you email yesterday. Just curious where you are in Bay Area and if you would be willing to take a look at my Targa Top and give me some pointers. I am in Davis

Let me know
Thanks
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Old 11-21-2002, 09:55 AM
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Hiya Bill, Be glad to take a look...But,

DO YOU KNOW THE WAY TO SAN JOSE???bah bah bah bah.. bah bah bah.. bom...

South San Jose...


Jorge (Targa Dude)
Old 11-21-2002, 10:37 AM
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Jorge,
I just sent an email . I hope it is ok.

thanks,
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Old 11-21-2002, 10:42 AM
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adjustment question, bringing this thread back to life.

I have no found what I am searching for so I bring this thread back to life...


My Targa top has been away for a recovering and it looks really nice, but it doesn't fit anymore

They (the shop) had to replace the front pins (the old ones broke of) with new and they dont fit in the windowframe anymore. The pins are now pointing outwards and not straight down.
Are they adjustable somehow?

I would like to know a little more before I go back to complain.

A picture can be found here:
http://www.dvdforum.nu/galleri/index.asp?act=si&page=1&id=4631&alb=3119




/Magnus
Old 02-16-2004, 07:05 AM
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Yes, they are. Loosen them so that they can move around and apply some silicone grease to the pins and the holes. It will take some work to get your "new" top to fit right. For example, you may need to readjust the rear pin assembly using the three allen head bolts. The side rubbers are held using four crosshead screws. Loosen these to permit side to side movement. When you close the door, the lip of the side seal should just hook over the top of the window.

Much, much information by performing a Search here. Comb the archives and you will learn an awful lot.

John
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Old 02-16-2004, 07:48 AM
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