911 Engine Management Kit

[darud35]

All, thanks for the positive feedback! I'll answer some of your specific questions below. As you can tell there's been a lot of work on this system. Everything from component selection, mechanical design to wire harness layout has all been elegantly put together (in my opinion of course). It's a great match for our Porsche 911's.

I will do my best to answer questions as they come. Feel free to email or PM me for more specifics as well.

Pazuzu:
Quick questions:
1) Electrical plug going into the right side fuel rail? -Fuel pressure sensor
2) Tech AFX fuel lines (they kinda look like them)? -Earls speed flex I believe? Not cheap, and not a flashy stainless braid
3) Oil tank breather? -I have one from Joe's Racing, not installed in the photo
4) Care to show us what's inside the dizzy (I understand if it's a trade secret, but maybe some description)? -I need to dig up the CAD model, can you send me an email and I'll forward a screen shot?
5) Why go that far and not replace the fuel filter with something modern? I like the AN fittings, but don't make us adapt it to the ancient Porsche fuel lines! -Hah I appreciate this kind of feedback! Here's my logic, I like the idea of keeping as many relavant Porsche parts on the car as necessary. It keeps kit cost down and prevents customers from having to search for a specific fuel filter should it need service. This can always be customized per customer requests though.

Dos531:
Please send me a PM or email and I can give you pricing

Scarceller:
Most part load points on the ignition table have been populated. I would of course suggest a dyno session to tune it for your specific application.

Preborado:
Good question. I had to do some digging on this during development. The only results I came up with were it helps for fuel pressure stabilizing. I need to verify fuel pressure without the accumulator. As of now, fuel pressure is rock solid at all RPM's.

[carrerarsr65]

do you have anything i could use with a twm itb kit? looking to go itb .and sell my 40idas

[impactbumper]

You know I have been thinking about this all week, trying to come up with a solution. Given the prices of the engine management systems dropping rapidly, it is a matter of time for us to modernize our cars without dropping large amounts of cash. I am subscribing to this thread as a potential buyer.

[darud35]

Carrerarsr65, it would work great on an ITB setup. Shoot me a PM if you'd like to discuss a kit.

Brek, thanks for the response! This really improves the driving experience in our cars. You mentioned the great value- I'm offering this special pricing for the first few customers and ask for feedback on the system in their cars. Shoot me a PM if you're interested.

[David Borden]

Andrew,

This is a real nice surprise! Congrats on what looks like a very well thought out system and very fairly priced.

First, I do not work for AEM nor am I a professional tuner. Just a happy customer... Matter of fact, this was my first stand alone engine management system install.

I wanted to pop in and give some feedback on the AEM Infinity ECU. In short, Incredible! I just installed an Infinity 8 on a Ford Coyote with DBW, 4x cam control, traction control with dial select-able slip %, 2x wideband feedback, switch select-able DBW throttle curves, AC control, engine protection strategies etc using their Coyote Control Pack plug and play kit.

On another forum, I was pretty much told I was an idiot for dumping the Ford PCM for an aftermarket stand alone system like the AEM Infinity. I was told it would be hard to tune and the Ford was way better...

Now that Ive been through it and find the car runs better than the Ford PCM ever did(for me) with regards to drive-ability, throttle response and mid range power and I only have a handful of hours tuning it. (their base map is really good) The car runs really well and I haven't even been to a dyno yet. Driving, while logging and tuning the VE table has been pretty straight forward.

Some may try to call BS on this, but thats been my experience. My friend, who spent significant $ on custom tuning and dyno tuning a Coyote as well is way happier after going to the AEM setup. (we have near identical setups) We took their 2 day training class down in LA and learned a ton.

I also have a Infinity 6 ready to install on my 3.0 using ITB. Ive been told that the system will work really well with ITB using the TPS strategy and using a MAP for Baro changes.

One thing that I dont think has been mentioned yet, is the engine protection features the Infinity has built in. These are incredibly useful with high cost engines like our 911s.

A couple of examples:

You lose a bit of fuel pressure from a weak pump or partially plugged filter... the system will automatically adjust injector pw to compensate keeping your AF ratio spot on.(requires FP sensor)

Oil pressure dropping? Trigger a MIL, drop RPM limit to whatever you want, or shut the engine down.

You can program it to flash a MIL light during any of these occurrences in addition to notifying you of failed sensors etc.

The logging capabilities are crazy as well. How about 100 channels at 100hz if Im remembering correctly?

For those interested in running E85... the system can be setup using an inexpensive OEM sensor to automatically adjust the fuel and spark tables depending on the ethanol content.

Hope you dont mind me popping in and showing you some support...( I do not know Andrew either)

For those who have any interest in my project: Installing AEM Infinity Stand Alone EFI on a Coyote - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum

I also purchased the AEM puck that is designed to be mounted on a distributor but have not designed an adapter. I too would be interested in purchasing one, along with a harness depending on the cost. They would be big time savers for me.

David

[hotaru]

Hi Andrew,
sent email

Stan

[Quickstep192]

Curious for any thoughts on the pros and cons of this versus EFI with Individual Throttle Bodies?

[tirwin]

Just a thought.

On a lot of EFI conversions it seems that a lot of people cut up the airbox. Just wondering why there isn't a simple economical alternative?

It seems like a selling point of a complete solution would be that you could revert to original. Even though I've changed some things on my car I've always tried to keep the original parts unmolested.

Another thought would be to sell it as 'Stage 1', 'Stage 2', etc kits. Maybe Stage 1 is using the existing airbox and runners. Stage 2 includes a different plenum of some type and Stage 3 is ITBs. That would give you some versatility to hit different customer goals and price points. Stage 1 is for the person who just wants a drop-in CIS replacement. Stage 3 is for the person who is hot rodding their motor. That kind of thing.

[scarceller]

Certainly cost, just the TBs would add another $2500 at least. I'd guess you'd easily be in the $5000-$6000 range for this setup with ITBs. And I'm not sure that for a street car ITBs would do much better than what Andrew already has. I think Andrew found a sweet spot between cost, performance and reliability. Also, ITBs 'tend' to be used to improve hi-RPM torque, like well above 6000RPMs.

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

Curious for any thoughts on the pros and cons of this versus EFI with Individual Throttle Bodies?

[Tippy]

Hello Andrew, very nice kit! I would have never tought to trigger with dizzy yet have sequential, but you did it.

Kudos...

Very, very nice kit. GLWS's!

[jpnovak]

Very nice looking kit. I have a few questions and comments that will probably come up with your potential customers.

1. What is the pickup inside your distributor adapter? Hall Effect, VR, optical?
2. Does you pickup indicate crank and cam signals?
3. Does your pickup mount inside the existing distributor or do you send a separate distributor body already complete?
4. Does your COP setup use sequential or wasted spark? (related to Q2)
5. Does your distributor fit early and late cases? the distributor holes are different sizes.
6. Does your distributor body have both crank gears (CS and CCW?) 2.7 and SC spin in opposite directions.
7. What coil packs do you use? Do the air seal "donuts" fit on them? Do you fix them to the valve covers or only friction fit?
8. Are the coil packs logic level driven or powered with an ignitor? This will help determine twin plug compatibility.
9. Is this particular AEM box engine bay mountable? This can help save some effort pulling wires to the passenger compartment.


I know that there are some comments about air box/manifold/induction. EFI does not really care what system its attached to as long as the installer and programmer/tuner knows how to setup for each particular install. I have been working on 911 EFI systems for about 10 years. No two installations have ever been the same for me.

Your fuel rail fixing system looks a lot like Tony Bitz kit. I do like that you are using a more modern electronics package with the simple mechanical layout.

I am 100% for converting CIS cars to EFI. Even carbs and MFI are good candidates for a modern fuel system.

Keep up the good work.

[darud35]

Much appreciated on the positive feedback. Working on getting through emails and PM's so I apologize if there's a delay.

Quickstep192:
This can easily be adapted to an ITB setup. Let me know if you're interested.

Tirwin:
I should have mentioned in the original posting but you can easily install with the factory intake and air box assembly. In fact that simplifies installation. Good idea for different levels of kits available.

jpnovak:
1. What is the pickup inside your distributor adapter? Hall Effect, VR, optical? -It's an optical hall effect sensor
2. Does you pickup indicate crank and cam signals? -Yes, both cam and crank (24x)
3. Does your pickup mount inside the existing distributor or do you send a separate distributor body already complete? -I will do a core system with buyers. Depending on initial order quantity I may need some customers to send them in prior to receiving the kit. All distributor housings will come rebuilt and ready for install.
4. Does your COP setup use sequential or wasted spark? (related to Q2) -Sequential
5. Does your distributor fit early and late cases? the distributor holes are different sizes. -I will need a customer to send their distributor for this, at least initially. Turn around time for the distributor rebuild is 1 week.
6. Does your distributor body have both crank gears (CS and CCW?) 2.7 and SC spin in opposite directions. -I have a 3.0L distributor adapter in the works. Should be available in the next week or two.
7. What coil packs do you use? Do the air seal "donuts" fit on them? Do you fix them to the valve covers or only friction fit? -They're Audi ignition coils. The sealing rings fit well with our valve covers. Friction on the top, and no issue yet. If someone wants twin plug I will supply brackets for the coil packs on the bottom.
8. Are the coil packs logic level driven or powered with an ignitor? This will help determine twin plug compatibility. -They're smart coils (4 pin).
9. Is this particular AEM box engine bay mountable? This can help save some effort pulling wires to the passenger compartment. -Yes, I want to put a thermocouple in the engine bay and drive it on a hot day here in CA to see what the temps get to. I could do that this weekend.

[acme911]

After communicating with Andrew and researching the AEM system I have committed to the purchase of a kit. David Bordans reply echoes the information that is online. I to think the protection mode is another plus. Initially it will be installed on a stock 2.7 with Oem intake. Eventually it will be transferred over to a 3.0 with ITB's. I would like to commend Andrew for bringing this to market and the attention of this forum. I will be posting to this thread when I begin the project.

[darud35]

Thanks a lot Andy. I look forward to working with you on what is sure to be a fun build.

[David Borden]

Congrats Andy! Hopefully we will get a good group of Infinity users so we can help support each other. I'll do my best to help as I can as well.

Davidd

[jpnovak]

Andrew, Thank you for the thorough answers. It sounds like a well sorted kit. Best of luck with the product roll-out.

[Mark's 86]

Any plans for developing a plug and play kit for 3.2L Motronic cars?

Mark

[darud35]

Mark, I've been discussing this with some other potential customers. This shouldn't be problem, in fact the 3.2L setup should be fairly straight forward in comparison. Shoot me a PM if you're interested.

If you're in Southern California, or even send photos/measurements, I can custom build for any application.

[onboost]

Originally Posted by carrerarsr65

do you have anything i could use with a twm itb kit? looking to go itb

Originally Posted by darud35

Carrerarsr65, it would work great on an ITB setup. Shoot me a PM if you'd like to discuss a kit.

I'm offering this special pricing for the first few customers and ask for feedback on the system in their cars. Shoot me a PM if you're interested.

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

Curious for any thoughts on the pros and cons of this versus EFI with Individual Throttle Bodies?

Originally Posted by darud35

Much appreciated on the positive feedback. Working on getting through emails and PM's so I apologize if there's a delay.

Quickstep192:
This can easily be adapted to an ITB setup. Let me know if you're interested.

jpnovak:
1. What is the pickup inside your distributor adapter? Hall Effect, VR, optical? -It's an optical hall effect sensor

2. Does you pickup indicate crank and cam signals? -Yes, both cam and crank (24x)

3. Does your pickup mount inside the existing distributor or do you send a separate distributor body already complete? -I will do a core system with buyers. Depending on initial order quantity I may need some customers to send them in prior to receiving the kit. All distributor housings will come rebuilt and ready for install.
4. Does your COP setup use sequential or wasted spark? (related to Q2) -Sequential

5. Does your distributor fit early and late cases? the distributor holes are different sizes. -I will need a customer to send their distributor for this, at least initially. Turn around time for the distributor rebuild is 1 week.

6. Does your distributor body have both crank gears (CS and CCW?) 2.7 and SC spin in opposite directions. -I have a 3.0L distributor adapter in the works. Should be available in the next week or two.

7. What coil packs do you use? Do the air seal "donuts" fit on them? Do you fix them to the valve covers or only friction fit? -They're Audi ignition coils. The sealing rings fit well with our valve covers. Friction on the top, and no issue yet. If someone wants twin plug I will supply brackets for the coil packs on the bottom.

8. Are the coil packs logic level driven or powered with an ignitor? This will help determine twin plug compatibility. -They're smart coils (4 pin).

9. Is this particular AEM box engine bay mountable? This can help save some effort pulling wires to the passenger compartment. -Yes, I want to put a thermocouple in the engine bay and drive it on a hot day here in CA to see what the temps get to. I could do that this weekend.

All good stuff to hear... has cost been established or estimated as yet?

Would be interested in hearing details of system set-up for TWM ITB w/twin plug..

Also Turbo w/twin plug..

As well as Motronic with twin plug.. Assume using factory sensors etc??

What if one did not want to use COP, could system be configured with different trigger wheel and coil pack set-up.. say such as EDIS?

Thx, looks be both interesting and promising!

[RSstop]

Andrew,
Looks like a well thought out kit.

As Jamie mentioned, no two EFI projects are identical, at least with 911's 33 years of production!
For my next EFI project, I was thinking of trying MS3 Pro for affordability, but the AEM has also caught my attention, especially if others are doing it with 911's.
My engine would be a 3.6 ITB's, so twin plug. Not sure if the Audi COP's will fit on the bottom?
A one-off harness is a lot of work. Your standard harness could probably work with most variations of sensor locations. For ITB's the TPS connector might need to be a few inches different.
Are you using the stock CIS temp sensor for warm up cycle ?
The 3.6 and 3.2 could use their stock cylinder head temp sensor or maybe something simpler?
As a reference for 911 engine bay temperatures, I had to re-locate a customers Motec that was mounted on the left CDI box location. Within 20 minutes the internal temp exceed the thermal cut-out at 175F. Once the engine is shut off, temps can exceed 250F from heat soak below.
Not sure what the rating is on the AEM or how much heat they generate on their own?