Towed again!! Will it never end??!! Argghhhh!

[Phoenix]

If anyone approached me Sunday afternoon and offered to trade me a Ford Pinto for Phoenix, I was just frustrated enough to do it!

Start her up in the cold morning air and after the usual three attempts she starts and warms up fine (with the usual - I've been sitting for a week spits and spats). Once warm she runs beautifully and I pick up my ex (hope to be again) gf for a nice drive up to Bear Mt. Phoenix runs beautifully and we even have a bit of spirited fun with a new Bimmer 330i. (Thought he could pass me on the right and cut in front. Oops -- that 30 year old porsche has some spunk in her )

We get to Bear mt, walk around in the brisk air, go ice-skating in their rink. Perfect day ...so far. Head back to the to go to a restaurant. Pack up all the gear, buckle up and she does nothing but turn over and over and over. Strong but not firing?!

I check everything. Disconnect and reconnect all the plugs, check all the wires around the Permatune box - everything ok. Pull the coil wire off the cap and touch to ground as now (frustrated but calming) ex cranks. Weak spark. Test for juice to the Permatune - plenty - check the cap and rotor connection and scrape clean with multi purpose tool knife - cut my finger deep - gf band-aids me - replace everything - shes a no go. (This is the third time Phoenix has left me stranded when gf was with me!!)

After two hours I cave - call a tow truck - $340 later she's home. Ex and I blow it all off to finish the day with a nice meal at home and some quality couch time.

Next morning - gf kisses me goodbye on her way to work :-) :-) - Phoenix = same symptoms.

I think it's the Permatune box which is only 5,000 miles old or so. It's getting juice but doesn't seem to be giving any?

I'm tired of breaking down with this car and thought I had redone all the critical systems.


I'm hoping the board in its infinite wisdom can recommend the best and most reliable ignition system for the money. Currently I have Permature - coil - points.

After reading a few threads here, I'm thinking MSD - optical electronic "points" - and a matching coil.

Any pitfalls with this system?
What "spare parts" should I carry around to avoid being left stranded...again!?

Please help!

[Moses]

Maybe it's just me, but she doesn't sound like an ex-girlfriend to me.

[Jamie79SC]

Must be the GF. We all know how jealous a 911 can be.

[Targa77]

My car has similar problem whenever I first purchased it. Turns out that my coil had gone bad and wrecked my CDS box. I purchased a new Permatune unit and coil and have had no problems since. Go to their site and perform the diagnostic checks.

[RoninLB]

screw the tests.. if you think it is the Permatune.. replace coil and CD box...........Ron

[Randy W]

I would switch to the OEM Bosch CD box - Permatunes fail too often.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Phoenix
It's getting juice but doesn't seem to be giving any?

I thought you said she spent the night? You *do* have some problems...

[eion]

Might I suggest towing insurance?

[ohecht]

Couldn't it be a fuel delivery problem rather than the ignition system?

Olivier

[Todd Simpson]

Whatever you do, don't just throw another permatune in there. If you can get a rebuilt Bosch CD box reasonably I would consider that, but replace the coil at the same time.

Consider that there is something else wrong that's taking out the permatune. A replacement will work for a while but you'll get the same problem again.

I posted the other day that I think getting everything from the same manufacturer is a good idea as well, much easier to track down problems and you'll get better tech help.

My last ignition was a mix of the Bosch CD box, stock coil and an XR700 with electronic trigger. Left me stranded again. The shop put in a Crane XR-3000, crane trigger and coil. So far so good, but it's not CD...oh well, it runs great.

I thought about carrying a back up system of points and old style coil that does not use a CD box for emergencies. May do that this year.

[paulhagedorn]

It has been a while since I worked on a 911, so bear with me. I was having problems that are sort of similar to yours in my 914.

You might want to replace the condenser(if there is one) that is located on the side of the distributor....I am pretty sure there is one. Then, replace the points. Obviously check timing after gapping the points, or get an electrical pickup and still check the timing.

Also, I believe AAA costs like $100 a year and you get towing as well as other benefits. Well worth the money in my opinion.

[ohecht]

What is special about the 911 coil that makes them so rare and expensive?

Is it the ranges of the primary and secondary windings in terms of resistance?

When I put in an Accel ignition, none of the recommended Accel coils would work, but the stock coil works fine. I would still like to replace it before it fails, and I am looking for a better alternative to the expensive stock versions. It surprised me that the coil matched to the new ignition box would not work when the entire system was replace (except the distributor).

Olivier

[Evans, Marv]

I suffered a similar problem with my '72 once. It actually turned out to be a bad ground on the coil. Got a new heavier duty ground wire and everything was fine. Good luck.

[john70t]

A couple things that might come in handy and are small are a spark tester(a "fake" spark plug that clips to a ground bolt), a remote starter (and wires to hook to battery/starter), a digital multimeter, and (for people with EFI) a noid light to check the signal to the injectors. Little bag in the trunk corner.

BTW, whats the "G". Hopefully not OG

[sithot]

This isn't going to be of any help but your ignition reminded me of a trip I took to Northern VA over 20 years ago. A friend and I had just completed a mechanical and cosmetic restoration of a 1970 911S.
He (who shall remain nameless to protect his image!) decided that we should take the car to a Potomac Region swap meet to show it off a bit an maybe find a buyer. We left on a Sunday morning heading up I-95 at about 7:00 a.m.
Once past Fredericksburg we started to pick up speed. (now you can pick up speed as soon as you leave Richmond!).
Anyhow, we're rolling along at roughly 75-80mph when I spy a Lamborghini Countach coming up on us in the left lane. My friend and I look over and there is an older gentleman in the passenger seat and what is likely his son driving the car. They look at us, give us a nod and smile.
Well, that's the cue boys and girls! It's on!
The Countach proceeded to accelerate away and we gave pursuit. Hitting speeds of about 125 plus mph
the "S" sounded wonderful. Of course, the Countach was playing but we were all having fun and the road was clear.
All of the sudden the car just quits. My friend immediately dumps the clutch and we are coasting at 110 mph. Really eerie feeling with no engine noise and we look at each other like two puzzled kids. It's kind of like being on a sailboat, but a really fast one in this case!
We pull off to the shoulder, the Countach now long gone and out of sight. A tug on the engine lid pull and we both skitter back to the patient to see what's the matter.

Guess what? The ground wire on the coil jumped off. A quick squeeze on it, push it back on and we hit the road again. We never did see that Countach ever again.
I wanted to tell him that next time we were going to bring our mutual friends IROC RSR!