Looking for VIN information. Is this the second ever built Karmann 911?

MaRu · 05-21-2015, 01:03 AM

Hello guys,

I know that the 912 built by Karmann have their own VINs. But I don´t see any hints that before 1968 any 911 was built by Karmann.
So my question now is... is VIN 11835002 the second ever build Karmann 911?
I have the chance to by it. But the price is very high -at least for me. But in case it is in fact the second Karmann 911 it is a bargain and probably more something for the Porsche museum (in case they don´t have 001)

Many thank in advance!!!

pors1968 · pors1968's Garage

They start built 911 Karmann coupe with 11835001.

JJ 911SC · JJ 911SC's Garage

According to the Red Book, if the "3" was a "2" as in 11825002, it would be a 1968 911T produced by Karmann, second of 683 produced.

The engine type should be a 901/03 in the range of 2080001-2081754

I could not find a 1183xxxx in the book but PORS1968 got better source that I got.

djpateman · 05-21-2015, 05:30 AM

The are both 11825001 ROW 911T & 11835001 USA 911 (Normal) Karmann coupes. No telling which were completed first. It would be interesting to know the Karmann body # located under the access cover on the tunnel in front of the rear seats.

JJ 911SC · JJ 911SC's Garage

Must be going blind... 11835xxx was on the second line.

911 Coupe (Karmann) 11835001-11835742

Engine type 901/06, 3080001-3080655 or

Engine type 901/07 Sporto, 3180001-3180347

MaRu · 05-21-2015, 10:42 AM

Thank you guys!

I don´t have the chance to check any numbers on the car at the moment. What I find is interessting is that it is #002, so very early, but it left the factory at the 20.12.1967. And it doesn´t have enigine number 308xxx (which it should have according to my book) , but 328xxx ...
Does anyone know when the first 1968 car left the factory and what might be the reason that it took so long for this car to left the factory?

many thanks again!

JJ 911SC · JJ 911SC's Garage

Engine serial 328xxxx was type 901/14 that was fitted to either US 911L Coupe or Targa, not build by Karmann.

They were going for $6790/$7190 respectively.

Back then Porsche had supply chain problem...

djpateman · 05-22-2015, 09:54 AM

Engine serial 328xxxx was the standard engine for the 11835001 USA 911 series.
If you have the COA for the car, that would be useful, but the Kardex could shed more light on why it left the factory so late. The Kardex I got for 450001 showed it was used for factory purposes.

MaRu · 05-24-2015, 02:04 AM

Sorry for the late reply!
I have seen the Kardex, and there is nothing written about why it left the factory this late...
Do you know when the first 1968 cars left the factory?

MaRu · 10-30-2015, 03:33 AM

Last night I had the chance to have a look at the car. The number on the access cover on the tunnel is the same as the VIN. The doors have been painted from the inside, too. So there is no number left. The dash is still installed, as is the knee protection. The car is no bargain. Do you think it is worth any extra $ because of the VIN?

Many thanks again

Norm01 · Norm01's Garage

What's not cheap. I don't think an early Karmann would carry extra value but who knows. Extra value should be attributed to a numbers matching solid car.

djpateman · 10-30-2015, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaRu

The number on the access cover on the tunnel is the same as the VIN.

That is very good information; my first data point for a 1968 911.
Did you get any photos? Do you have a copy of the Kardex?
I really do not see a premium for the low VIN in this particular case.
As always, the value is proportional to the condition and originality.

Daves911L · Daves911L's Garage

11860074 was built October '67. It also has the actual VIN stamped in the now not so secret location under the dash. I thought all '68's were this way and it wasn't until '69 that it became the special Porsche internal number. As for value of #2, I agree that it makes no difference, especially in '68 with the confusing numbering/production sequence.

Norm01 · Norm01's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daves911L

11860074 was built October '67. It also has the actual VIN stamped in the now not so secret location under the dash. I thought all '68's were this way and it wasn't until '69 that it became the special Porsche internal number. As for value of #2, I agree that it makes no difference, especially in '68 with the confusing numbering/production sequence.

The 5 in the OP serial number denotes the Karmann, your VIN is a Porsche bodied 911 and I don't think the last three digits follow sequence as in 0001, 5002. I believe there would actually be a 0001 and a 5001. Maybe someone can confirm.

djpateman · 10-30-2015, 10:35 AM

Yes, each of the many VIN series in 1968 would have 001, 002, 003, etc.
The production # on the lower dash, hidden by the kneepad, is always the VIN through 1968.
The Karmann # on the tunnel is a completely separate # that CAN be similar to the VIN, and changes to the coded production # style in 1969.

MaRu · 10-31-2015, 02:25 AM

Thanks for your answers! I haven´t bought th ecar yet. And it is way more expensive than a "normal" 1969. And from what I read here right now I guess I will not buy it. But just in case it really is the second ever build 911 by Karmann, for me I think it must be worth much more. maybe the first is in the Porsche museum. remember, the second one EVER build. Only 912 were made by Karmann before. Another interesting thing is when it was completed, but left the factory at 12/10/1968. It is a burgundy (6808) car, maybe it was used for bocks, magazines,.... Yeah mabe I am just dreaming, I know...