Help a newbie out understanding track prep
 

Hi -

I took my daily driver (2015 Chevy SS) to Virginia International Raceway for a HPDE event last weekend. Needless to say I got bit HARD by the track bug. I have now made it my life's purpose to spend more time on the track doing DE type events. I would hate to ruin my daily driver and feel bad abusing it that way (though it is very capable) and was thinking of taking my 911 instead. The problem with that is I'd hate to ruin it as well. It's not a show car but is certainly not a track rat. I have been toying with the idea of selling her and picking up a 996 turbo until someone pointed out I would then be "driving a fast car slow". Good point. So now I'm back to considering tracking my 911 and am looking for advice on prepping the car to be a decent track runner. A few thoughts:

1. The car has unknown mileage on it however I know the top end was refreshed about 30k miles ago. Is there anyway I can somehow assess the health of my motor (besides compression test and leakdown) before taking it on the track? I think I'm more concerned with rod bearing issues than anything.

2. Should I be adding another oil cooler to the car prior to my first event? As is the car runs great on hot days in traffic.

2. A one point trans syncros were changed but I still have a problem getting into first and sometimes downshifting from 5th to 4th. Besides either tweaking that should I be doing anything with the fluid? Do I need a cooler?

3. The car has stock brakes, with upgraded pads and fluids are these sufficient for a novice on say Watkins Glen or VIR?

4. The suspension was rebuilt with ER stuff a while back by a previous owner. Besides looking for loose balljoints / tie rods is there anything else I should be checking for in the front end?

5. I'd like to get harnesses, is a bolt in 4 point cage/bar with harness attachment points sufficient? Or do I need to get something welded in?

6. Is there anything else I should be considering? I'm really intimidated by this car with all the talk about spin outs and expensive repairs. I know they can be capable in the right hands but I'm not sure i have those.

Thanks for the input!

i take my 84 carrera out to track often. mostly stock...i mean it has stock 993 engine in it... i can tell you what i do with my car that perhaps also works for you. the true track rats will chime in for sure.

2. no need for additional oil cooler unless you are in extremely hot and humid climate.
3. don't think you need 1st on a DE session, except leaving the pit. also, just take your time coming back from 5th to 4th. not only to allow more time for syncro to work but also to avoid money shift.
4. watch out for the shock wear. shock wear becomes irritating especially at the threshold braking.
5. If 4 pt or more harness, cage, roll bar and fixed back race seat are must. If 4pt, Schroth ASM is a must, other wise, go 6pt with correctly mounted anchor points.
6. brake pads and high temp DOT4 brake fluids are must. desired to have sticky tires. i really like Dunlop ZII*, Hankook R-S3, and the likes in that price range. extremely capable street tires. for me, no need for R-comps.

enjoy!

I'm assuming you're a beginner in formulating my responses.
1) Unless you have a specific reason to be concerned about your engine, it should be fine.
2a) An extra oil cooler may be a good idea, but I would wait on that until you actually get some track time with your SC. You can always come in early on your run session if you see temps getting too high.
2b) I had a similar issue and it is a bit of a PITA. You might just need to look at you shift coupler and make some adjustments.
3) Stock brakes with fresh fluid like ATE and performance brake pads should be fine. Make sure your rotors aren't too worn. Once again, if you start feeling your brakes going away on you, you can always come in early from your session. Then start thinking about any upgrades.
4) Also make sure your wheel bearings are good and that your CV joints on the stub axles are good.
5) Make sure you know what the harness/seat/rollbar requirements are for the organizations that you'll drive with. I think 4-point is a non-starter. Better to initially just use stock seats and seatbelts.
6) Start with street tires, and only replace them if they're too old or worn. Make sure you have a good helmet. I think you should be able to purchase track insurance. Make sure you bring the right attitude (listen and learn) to the track and the instructors should help you develop skills and confidence. Have fun!

Similar mental state........
 

Sicklyscott,

You are not alone feeling this insecurity for bringing your 911 to a drivers' Ed. I was in similar mental state when my son wanted to do our first DE some 20 years ago. My reaction was that there was no way I would take my garage queen '78 targa to a race track and abused it. I was wrong and got the bug.

Even before attending our first DE, I was seriously thinking of buying a pair of race seats, Rennline aluminum pedal cluster accessories, 5-point harness, roll cage, racing tires, etc. and when I spoke to a friend who was a DE instructor, he advised me to focus on the brake, steering & suspension, over all drivability of the car. The car passed the tech inspection and began many years of enjoyable experience.

This was the advice I got from an experience track driver: "If you can not afford to have the car wrecked or seriously damaged, don't take it to the track because you will have that mental block to get you to the next skill level". Once you have overcome that fear or concern, the addiction would unbelievable. Expensive but memorable. Take it slow and do it as you progress and develop your driving skill.

Tony

I had mentioned the idea that its more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow :).

You are exactly where I was 2 months ago. I am also a track newbie, who just started driving his 930 at HPDE. It was a ball!!! It is so much fun to experience these cars somewhere other than stop and go traffic...

Like you, I have heard so much about these cars being tail happy that I was paranoid beyong belief on the track. I was taking every turn at very slow speeds, just waiting for the tail to snap out and slam me into a wall...

I was/am getting passed by miata's, s2000's, boxsters, etc. But I figure I want to ease into high speed corners, as I really don't want to destroy my car. And all of these postings on the internet over the decades about how the 911 kills people in turns if you lift off, scared the crap out of me.

By my second day out, I am almost quick enough to keep up with the miatas in the beginner group. Faint praise, I know :).

But here is what I learned:

1) The 911/930 is plenty fine for the track stock. No need for upgrades (at least as you start out)
2) The brakes are amazing!!! No hints of fading, slowing down, overheating (fresh fluid change with ATE super blue done).
3) You can outrun a lot of cars in the straights...
4) These cars can take highspeed corners at pretty high speeds, and still be well within the performance envelope and not spin...

I try to take high speed corners at a moderate pace, with constant speed without accelerating in the corner. I figure this settles the chassis, and if I lift off (reflex!), it lowers the risk of any issues...

I also learned that being slow, hasn't hampered by ability to have fun. I am driving my dream car, on a race track!!! How many people can say that?

I also figured out, that rather than throwing tons of money on upgrades, I would rather just spend time learning to drive. I see drivers in piece-o-crap cars keeping up with vettes in the high speed group...

I also figured out, that I care more about corners than the high speed straights. Going 140++ in a straight, in my mind, is asking for trouble. You better be damn sure your brakes/tires/car are 100%. You can 99% of the fun going 110...

In my very limited experience, you should have a ball with your 911. Just go out, be safe, and slowly work up your skills...

I know a boxster for $10,000 would be faster. I know a car with a bunch of electronic nannies would be faster... But what is the goal? Is it to be the fastest? Or to have the most fun and be the most satisfied at the end of the day? Feeling the rear just start to slip out in a tight corner feels great... It fun trying to get to just that point, and not go over... Is the point for you to drive the car, or the computer to drive the car?

Bo

I hear what you're saying Bo! As I mentioned my first track day was in a 2015 Chevy SS; magnetic shocks, torque vectoring rear, 415 hp V8, Brembos on all 4 corners....it was an absolute blast and I could have gone 140 on the back straight if I tried but honestly anything over 120 felt unsafe to me.

I did notice that some of my old FWD autocross days were showing through as I tried to trail brake in almost every turn. Breaking that habit in a 911 would be crucial it seems.

Ultimate goal...I don't care about being the quickest, but i don't want to be the slowest. Middle of the pack would be fine. I am more concerned about getting home from the track in 1 piece. A blown motor would suck, but a wadded up car would suck more.

Between this and my cross-post in the track section I think I'm slowly being talked into trying a PCA event out. I want to make sure my instructor has classic 911 experience.

One other thing to consider, and I haven't heard much from the PCA crowd on this...

The SCCA crowd told me that their liability insurance is much better than PCA, I would love to verify, but it seems hard to do... The SCCA policy is openly posted on the net.

The SCCA guys mention that the driver is also an insured party when it comes to liability with the SCCA, possibly not so with PCA? Don't know. This doesn't cover car damage obviously, but if someone sues its nice to know you might have coevarge, rather than just the track being covered...

The SCCA covers track damage should you take something out, PCA doesn't

SCCA covers medical damage up to 1 million, PCA doesn't...

I would love to see some PCA guys chime in on this...

since you are new to de events don't go crazy spending money on parts you *think* will make you better. you will get afraid on the track long before your stock 1980 911 will. don't focus on speed, focus on learning techniques and becoming a better driver and speed will come. in our local pca de events you can't even move up from the beginner class for a minimum of 5 events.

things to do....

get a helmet and some gloves. helmet should be SA 2015 rated to get the most life out of it. i picked up a set of "racing" gloves from summit for around $40 but for my first 2 years of doing de events (3-4 a year) i used a pair of mechanics gloves from sears :)

if you are a backyard mechanic make sure you car is in top shape, and if not take it to someone who knows out cars. obvious things are checking the brakes (pads and rotors should be good, fluid should be no more than 12 months old), tires, wheel bearings, belts, oil leaks, seats, battery (charged and secure), etc etc. if you want send me a pm and i will forward you the tech inspection sheet our club uses.

don't worry about harnesses, roll cages, oil coolers, changing camber or any other "race" mods. do a couple events, see how the car handles and you will learn what areas you will need to improve on the car. in stock form it will do everything you need and more for quite a while.

don't worry about shifting. chances are you will only be using 2 or 3 gears for the entire track and none of them will be 5th gear :)

have fun and talk to other drivers. remember that de events don't give out trophies or medals or cash prizes :) don't sweat getting passed by miatas or s2000s or gt3 cars, everyone progresses at a different rate. i regularly get passed on the straights by gt cars, caymans, turbos and the like but i can usually catch them in the corners. there are a couple guys who bring their race miatas to the track and make me look like i am standing still, and then there are the guys with brand new 911s who i make look silly. it's all just about you and your car having fun, so don't even think about who is passing you or who you are passing.

fwiw i have done 15-20 events over the last few years in my 83 targa and the only "mods" is has are a set of ssi, muffler and hankook ventus rs-3 tires. btw, these are great beginner tires. they are sticky and the closest thing to an r-compound tire that is still street legal. you can drive to the track with them and on the track when you are there.

Great attitudes and advice given.
Spend your money on a helmet and seat time.
New rotors/pads and brake fluid can't hurt.
Verify proper fan belt tension and oil level.
It's not about the car, it's the driver.

It's funny to see someone else also thinking this. Because internet, I bought my 911 thinking it would spontaneously spin out at every turn. Don't lift! Don't lift! Well, I eventually deliberately lifted to see if something would happen. Nothing.
On the skid pad, they need to wet the track down AND pull up your E-brake for you to lose rear traction. That's in 2nd gear. Maybe it's different at speed. In reality, you need to be tires screeetching for lifting to actually make you to spin out. I did it at autocross in full lock turns in 2nd gear, while shredding the tires. Maybe if you do it at 70mph, you do spin around. But, I drive nothing like that on the streets.

I have to find a skid pad somewhere...

When I take a turn at 40mph, and the back starts to slide...if I lift off, it just straightens out...

Maybe at 80mph it spins...

1. The car has unknown mileage on it however I know the top end was refreshed about 30k miles ago. Is there anyway I can somehow assess the health of my motor (besides compression test and leakdown) before taking it on the track? I think I'm more concerned with rod bearing issues than anything. Just this year a local 996 turbo threw a rod at our track. Be ready to accept any fate and walk it off.

2. Should I be adding another oil cooler to the car prior to my first event? As is the car runs great on hot days in traffic. You will be fine. If it runs hot, run a few cool down laps and repeat. If that happens on anything other than the hottest days, then it is oil cooler time.

2. A one point trans syncros were changed but I still have a problem getting into first and sometimes downshifting from 5th to 4th. Besides either tweaking that should I be doing anything with the fluid? Do I need a cooler? I bought a transmission cooler knowing that I probably will not need it. Folks in the know say you need runs over 30min driving hard to even get the temp up to a point of needing one. I also bought a CMS fork cover for the transmission with the built in oil temp sensor. I then got a VDO temp gauge. I need to hook it up this winter. I will run with it, and if my temps get high enough, I will install my transmission cooler. I had the plumbing (return line) put in when I had my transmission rebuilt. Better not to need it, but be able to have it, than need it and not be able to have it without opening the transmission again.

3. The car has stock brakes, with upgraded pads and fluids are these sufficient for a novice on say Watkins Glen or VIR? I can not comment on those tracks, but I think you will be fine with pads/fluid. Lots of time to cool brakes on the longer tracks. IF you have issues, buy and install the plastic 993 brake cooling scoops. Cheap.

4. The suspension was rebuilt with ER stuff a while back by a previous owner. Besides looking for loose balljoints / tie rods is there anything else I should be checking for in the front end? Alignment. If the car is very low, a bump steer kit never hurts, but those tracks should be pretty smooth so it would be more for the road. Eventually install WEVO sway bar mounts... otherwise it is a matter of WHEN your oem ones crack

5. I'd like to get harnesses, is a bolt in 4 point cage/bar with harness attachment points sufficient? Or do I need to get something welded in? I would like to read opinions, but the bolt in route is where I eventually hope to go. Better than nothing, reversible. Ideal for dual purpose car. I run a harness bar which many say is a no-no (came with the car). I currently am focusing on the car in general, and new OEM seatbelts. I will worry about my harness later. Welded is the ideal obviously, but overkill in anything less than a track dedicated car IMHO.

6. Is there anything else I should be considering? I'm really intimidated by this car with all the talk about spin outs and expensive repairs. I know they can be capable in the right hands but I'm not sure i have those.I too was scared. But it is a puppy dog if you know what you are doing. Smoothness, consistency. Slowly build up your speed and confidence. Just don't suddenly change your mind mid turn. Check you ego at the door. In hind sight my biggest fear is a 30 year old car with some new reliable parts, but a few 30 year old parts. Make sure you have an easy release fire extinguisher on hand.

True story, the first time I took my 911 to the track was a week after I bought it. Never drove a 911 before. Ran great, except it kept having a mechanically stuck throttle after WOT runs.

These cars are tough as long as you don't do something silly like hit 2nd from 5th. Figure that out before you go. If you will be going over ~110mph you will need 5th.

Don't fear expensive repairs. Fear the money you will spend to make your car lighter/faster for the next season once you are even more hooked.

It all depends on your traction. If your tires have a lot of traction to spare, you will not spin easily, or at all. Wet road, wet leaves, cold tires/cold road/etc, crappy tires, high speeds, and your tires will have less and less traction in reserve. Thus, it will take much less to cause a spin. Lift and suddenly brake in a panic, and it will take less still.

When you are really hot on the track and running near the limit of adhesion through most parts of a corner, a lift can unload the rear tires (weight transfers forward, even more if you brake) and cause them to slide out. As one racer said to me, when a race car is truly on the limit, a gentle push at the right time could cause it to spin out.

I once lifted on a sharp turn mid corner on the street. My heart sunk realizing what I did, but nothing happened. I had too much traction.

I was doing slalom at a HPDE in the wet and was really pushing hard "just to see" and the back came out (no lift) and I just quickly corrected with some counter-steer and no drama. I missed a cone, but did not spin. Had I lifted I bet I could not have saved it.

Great advice in this thread. The main bits I would stress are to make sure you have a fire extinguisher on-board and to do a brake bleed with fresh fluid before the event. Take the car on a shake-down run before and after the event, and look around for any obvious issues after each shake-down, but don't worry about breaking the motor/tranny.

I'd start with standard street tires and stock pads. Beginners tend to over-use the brake pedal. Consider your current tires and pads a cheap teaching aid and use them up before upgrading. Better to get a feel for the car with lower limits -- you'll probably have more fun, anyway.

When you switch to a softer tire, you'll probably find that you run out of brake before you run out of grip; upgrade the pads and fluid to keep pace with the rubber.

In fact, don't even put it into 5th gear. Problem solved. Let people pass you in the straight, while you're learning.

I failed to mention I have 16x9 on the rear. I bet that makes a difference.
Have lifted mid turn and not even come close to slipping.

Only time that has happened when I am plowing hard on the fronts and lift.
On my 2nd AX day, I started doing this intentionally to pivot the car.