Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 3.67 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 516
Jonny, I am really impressed by your parts and I am grateful that people still go the effort to develop new parts for our old cars.
I own an 1983 930 Turbo with lots of upgraded parts (headers, 964 cams, gt35, bigger IC but still on CIS and I want to keep it that way). I currently run an MSD 6al2 with a boost retard function, which I like to have on a turbo. Is it in your plans to ad this function to your programmable CDI?
Old 11-02-2017, 01:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #161 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jonny H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: South East England
Posts: 936
Also, this in recently.

3.0L SC, high comp pistions and custom cams. Still on CIS. 240 BHP.



__________________
www.classicretrofit.com
Old 11-02-2017, 02:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #162 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jonny H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: South East England
Posts: 936
And this:

Standard US Spec 180HP SC motor. NO INTERNAL CHANGES. Not even rebuilt.

PMO 40s, SSIs, CDI+. 232 BHP.

__________________
www.classicretrofit.com
Old 11-02-2017, 02:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #163 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jonny H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: South East England
Posts: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100sport View Post
Jonny, I am really impressed by your parts and I am grateful that people still go the effort to develop new parts for our old cars.
I own an 1983 930 Turbo with lots of upgraded parts (headers, 964 cams, gt35, bigger IC but still on CIS and I want to keep it that way). I currently run an MSD 6al2 with a boost retard function, which I like to have on a turbo. Is it in your plans to ad this function to your programmable CDI?
If the boost retard input is just a 12V signal then we could do that already with a very minor firmware update. Can you confirm?
__________________
www.classicretrofit.com
Old 11-02-2017, 02:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #164 (permalink)
Reiver
 
Reiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 25,081
Johnny, you've probably done this but a question....have you run a baseline with your CDI of a completely stock 911 SC ....when you show HP increases with Carbs, SSI's etc. how does one know what is making how much HP?
The picture shows a motor dyno so this is not rear wheel hp?
__________________
De Oppresso Liber
Old 11-02-2017, 04:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #165 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jonny H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: South East England
Posts: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiver View Post
Johnny, you've probably done this but a question....have you run a baseline with your CDI of a completely stock 911 SC ....when you show HP increases with Carbs, SSI's etc. how does one know what is making how much HP?
The picture shows a motor dyno so this is not rear wheel hp?
Yes, of course. Standard SC vs same car with CDI+ and my car with cams:



Difference between orange and green traces for same car, same igntion timing (no changes to map). It doesn't look a lot but it's the mid range that makes the car feel faster, not the headline power.

There is also the independent test report on our website.

Engine builders using CDI+ have no interest in going back to a Bosch unit every time they build an engine. These guys are already 'sold' on the unit through many hours of testing.

The CIS engine was dynoed on a standard Bosch box at 230 HP and there was a substantial dip in power at 4500 RPM that CDI+ improved with igntion mapping. The dyno shown is ex WRC so I'm fairly certain is showing corrected HP at the wheels.

A PMO'ed standard 3.0L SC engine with SSIs would normally make around 210 - 220 HP. Interestingly, this engine responded massively to the double spark but mapping made only minor improvements.

To be honest, we are well past having to 'fight it out' with the doubters. The units are used by some of the best engine builders and race teams out there.
__________________
www.classicretrofit.com
Old 11-02-2017, 05:20 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #166 (permalink)
 
Reiver
 
Reiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 25,081
Not challenging you Johhny but had not seen this chart. Thanks.
__________________
De Oppresso Liber
Old 11-02-2017, 06:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #167 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Lomita, CA
Posts: 911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothy View Post
I was not thinking of dynamic knock control.
I was thinking much simpler. If it detected a knock.
The key problem is to reliably discriminate been noise and a true knock signal characteristic
of that particular motor. Once that's known, the balance of the processing is relatively simple.
__________________
Dave
Old 11-02-2017, 10:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #168 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ischmitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 4,509
Garage
Send a message via Skype™ to ischmitz
On the 964 DME the “knock MCU” is a Motorola 68705R3 clocked at 4MHz. The main MCU sends an analog signal via a 3bit DAC to one of its analog inputs and can read two bits back mapped to an I/O address of the main MCU. The Motorola gets resets for every ignition event. I pulled the code off it but haven’t gone through it. Stuff for a rainy day....
__________________
'74 Targa 3.6 (not stock ) - '01 C4 (almost stock) - '00 ML430 (stock)

I repair/rebuild Bosch CDI Boxes and Porsche Motronic DMEs
Porsche "Hammer" or Porsche PST2 - I can help!!
How about a NoBadDays DualChip for 964 or '95 993
Old 11-02-2017, 11:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #169 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Mothy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,389
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Mothy
Lets see what develops. Ive been very happy with what Jonny has developed so far. A little bit of modern technology for our older cars.
__________________
Swapped my WRX Sti MY02 for a Porsche 911SC '83
Keep buying parts to make it look older.
Mid life crisis is now in its 12th year.
Old 11-02-2017, 11:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #170 (permalink)
Registered User
 
MFAFF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: London
Posts: 1,675
Having just now collected my 72E from having it’s dead CDI box replaced by one of Jonny’s units I thought I’d share a qualitative (not quantitative) quick review..

It certainly immediately noticeable in terms of cold start and idle stability with the hand throttle..... much much steadier and yet better response. Makes those first few miles a better drive.

Once warm the overall response is crisper and feels sharper. At steady speeds I felt an ever so slight tremor at certain speed, probably to do with the slowly failing CDI box... now it feels very steady yet quick to react to the accelerator. Sona idea if the amount of power has changed, there is already enough for my driving, however it feels more accessible now.

Admittedly I have forgotten the fine detail of how it was 20 years ago when I first drove it so perhaps the CDI was as good once, but for me it has made the overall drive even better and more fun....
__________________
Share with me. Teach me something I didn't know. Make me think. But don't make me a bit player in your passion play of egotism. Dueller. 13/03/09
Old 12-04-2017, 07:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #171 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jonny H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: South East England
Posts: 936
Software release 1.33
==============

Main new feature is a 10k tacho. Some refinements to operation too.



Software update available on either product page, e.g. this one:

Classic Retrofit CDI Plus upgrade ignition unit for Porsche 911 models 3-pin

CDI+ units available right here on Pelican.

P/N 911-CDI-3P or 911-CDI-6PN
__________________
www.classicretrofit.com
Old 09-22-2018, 08:49 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #172 (permalink)
Nux Nux is offline
Registered User
 
Nux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 390
Garage
Any chance of a Mac compatible software?
Old 09-22-2018, 09:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #173 (permalink)
RDM RDM is offline
Coram Deo
 
RDM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ramstein, Germany
Posts: 1,215
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nux View Post
Any chance of a Mac compatible software?
I'm with you.
__________________
Dru
1980 911SC Targa • Petrol Blue Metallic • Cork special leather • Sport Seats • Limited Slip • 964 Cams • SSIs • Rennshifter
1990 Mercedes 250D Opawagen • 2002 E270 T CDI Familienwagen
Old 09-22-2018, 01:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #174 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jonny H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: South East England
Posts: 936
I actually run a Mac myself and use the software through Parallels.

Maintaining two code bases is a bit of a nightmare so unless Flutter (or similar) moves to desktop it would be a big undertaking. It may be possible to port it to java or HTML5 but a ton of work and retest required.
__________________
www.classicretrofit.com
Old 09-22-2018, 02:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #175 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7
Defective CDI+

Jonny,
I was thinking about purchasing a CDI+ box but heard from a guy at a car meet this weekend that some recently have been defective. Has this problem been fixed?
Old 10-09-2018, 12:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #176 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jonny H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: South East England
Posts: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by bighead View Post
Jonny,
I was thinking about purchasing a CDI+ box but heard from a guy at a car meet this weekend that some recently have been defective. Has this problem been fixed?
Yes fixed. Not defective, just over sensitive.

We recalled around 20 units as a precaution because we found that their over temp protection was being over cautious. It looks like two diodes that have been in the design from day one have changed their specification.

All customers were personally contacted and units are being corrected.
__________________
www.classicretrofit.com
Old 10-09-2018, 03:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #177 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jonny H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: South East England
Posts: 936
In more exciting news, my favourite car at the moment (not mine) is this little 69S road legal race car. It had an engine rebuild in 2014 and was dyno’ed back then. Unfortunately for the owner it had to be stripped due to an oil feed issue. It was rebuilt again to standard S spec and slightly different cam timing. MFI tweaks and some CDI+ tuning has seen 15 - 20 ft lbs torque increase across the board:

DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker • View topic - 69S RHD
__________________
www.classicretrofit.com
Old 10-09-2018, 03:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #178 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 815
Garage
Jonny, layman's question: Re the curves on the stock SC without then with CDI+... in the most basic terms, does all that extra torque at lower RPMs come from CDI+ optimizing the timing (over what the distributor can do itself) or by sending more voltage to each plug? Or both, neither, or something else? Ignition theory isn't my strong suit. Thanks, John
Old 10-09-2018, 05:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #179 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jonny H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: South East England
Posts: 936
^ It’s all about converting the energy in the fuel mixture to kinetic energy to move the piston. The more energy you put into the spark, the quicker the flame front and the energy release meaning more power. It also means that you can get more power with less advance (same as with twin plugging)

You can increase the spark energy by increasing the voltage at the detriment of the ignition components. We choose to stick with the stock 300v but take advantage of the very fast Bosch black coil and fire the spark twice in quick succession. This guarantees double the spark energy but does not damage the coil or rotor and there is no neeed for ‘special’ leads.

If the ignition is more efficient then it follows that the fuel mixture may be adjusted to take advantage of the increased spark energy. My SC responded to enrichment after fitting CDI+

We generally find that the engines also respond further to timing adjustments when dyno’ed but most of the major gains are through spark energy.
__________________
www.classicretrofit.com
Old 10-11-2018, 03:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #180 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:51 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.