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Tom '74 911's Avatar
 
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RUSToration Sheet Metal

Hi,

I have 2 fairly involved RUSToration projects ('74 911 & '69 912) and have a question about what others typically do regarding replacement sheetmetal.

I have sourced a significant amount of replacement, stamped sheetmetal from a typical provider and I also have a '69 912 that I had planned to use as a sheetmetal donor.

I will have to use a few pieces from the donor that aren't available and I will have to fabricate a lot of small patch pieces myself from scratch, but what I'm wondering is if most of you guys who have done extensive panel replacements have found it easier to just start w/a clean, new to you, pre-stamped piece rather than harvesting from the donor? What I'm finding w/the pieces that I am harvesting from the donor is that I am spending so much time carefully cutting, cleaning and prepping the sections I am trying to use, that it seems like I would've been better off getting the pieces (at least the ones that are available) as replacement, stamped sheetmetal instead. If I were charging for my time, I'd probably be way ahead if I just had bought more pre-stamped replacement pieces...

Just curious what others typically do...

Thank you,
Tom

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'74 911 Red Sunroof Coupe, 3.6L, etc...
Old 01-10-2016, 05:47 PM
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Tom, I'd suggest you check out the British site, DDK-Online, specifically at the restoration forum. For example, look at the thread title something like "Another 2.4 RHD ex NZ.." This shows the body being restored by a great guy called Barry Carter, who has made a full- time living restoring 911 shells on a Celette bench, in a very cool little workshop. He's super talented and has made some tooling you'd find interesting, such as dies to press authentically ribbed rear shelf pieces. His metal work is sublime, and these threads are not just inspiring but also educational. He seems to prefer new OEM parts from Porsche GB, but points out how even their quality can vary at times.

The DDK restoration forum has much more of the body repair stuff than the equivalent here on PP. Don't blame me for the hours you will spend looking and reading there..... Best regards, John in CT.
Old 01-10-2016, 06:52 PM
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The DDK Restoration forum : DDK - Die Deutschen Klassiker • View forum - Restoration Threads

Barry is a magician. I have learned a lot looking through many threads where he's resurrected some badly corroded bodies.

I don't mind spending the time surgically 'harvesting' sheet metal from a donor vehicle. I will say that if I need the entire panel, I do a lot more grinding (through the adjacent panel) than drilling of spot welds. That takes time but you're left with a solid flange instead of a perforated remnant. You will notice that many spot welds will be on the edge of the flange - meaning if you are drilling these spot welds, you're left with a pretty big mess, at times. Otherwise just extract the portion of the panel you need from the donor and butt weld it in.

As for solid 'harvested' sheet metal vs. new from Porsche vs. aftermarket, I think it depends. NOS is great but sometimes $$ or N/A. Old harvested sheet metal might fit better, even compared with new OEM. Small details change over time, as well. You'll have to consider how important these are to you.

I'm not sure where things are at now, but various common OEM replacement parts you had to modify for use in early cars (i.e. the later front tank support and outer rockers as the early OEM parts were not available).

In order of preference.

-NOS
-'Harvested'
-OEM
-Restoration Design
-
-
-
-
-Dansk, etc.


I have not used many parts (yet) from Restoration Design, but I have heard good things regarding their fit and finish. I don't know what I would put in all the empty spaces in the list above, but I'd like to leave lots of space between Restoration Design and Dansk.

Tim K
Old 01-10-2016, 08:34 PM
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Thanks for the info John & Tim, I always appreciate experienced perspectives.

I've followed other build links to the DDK forums in the past & been impressed with what's being documented over there & the scope of the projects. I'll search out Barry Carter's thread(s) & will likely spend far too much time over there reading... Thank you for the tip!

I mostly started this thread because I am sick of my grinder! Prepping the RUSToration patient takes a lot of grinder time and I've been moving back & forth between it and the donor car just for variety. I'm finding that the last thing I'm excited to do after spending the day grinding, is to spend the next day grinding too! Hence the thought that it'd be easier & better for my sanity to just have a replacement piece ready to go. I anticipate that the stamped replacement parts will take significant work to fit, but at least it's different work than grinding seams...

Yes, absolutely a first world problem!!!

I always like photos in threads like these so I snapped a few this morning of where I am at the moment. Here's the '69 912. It will get, a front suspension pan, front latch panel, battery box areas (may nix the right side box for a cooler), front pedal area, floors, both rockers, rear seat & seat back edges, rear parcel shelf & a thousand misc. small bits & pieces... it's a long road for sure...











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'74 911 Red Sunroof Coupe, 3.6L, etc...
Old 01-11-2016, 06:44 AM
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Wow Tom, seeing the difficulty level with that - gives me initiative to tackle my 69E.

Do you have a wide pic of the top side?


MattR
Old 01-11-2016, 06:53 AM
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Another thing I'm finding is that the panels from the donor car are not 100% pristine either. So I end up spending a ton of time carefully cutting and cleaning only to be rewarded with a part that is 60-70%... I am still deciding exactly where my level of perfection resides, but I generally feel that if I'm going to visit the depths of rust HE(double hockey sticks), that I want to end up with as perfect a tub as I can when I'm done...

A few more photos...

Part of the sheetmetal from Restoration Designs I've accumulated as well as the rusty original latch panel & the panel I was hoping to use as a replacement. So far, I've sourced all the replacement sheetmetal from Restoration Designs, so I have nothing to compare it to. I did start this thread however that included my experience w/one of the parts: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/paint-bodywork-discussion-forum/889240-best-way-protect-4-season-912-911-driver.html

Also a photo of the '74 911 that's next.

And a photo of the coolest tool I am lucky enough to have; a Celette bench... I was layout out a few pieces on it yesterday, anticipating being able to get the car on it shortly...





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'74 911 Red Sunroof Coupe, 3.6L, etc...

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Old 01-11-2016, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt930s View Post
Wow Tom, seeing the difficulty level with that - gives me initiative to tackle my 69E.

Do you have a wide pic of the top side?


MattR
Hi Matt,

I don't think I have a wide photo of the topside yet, but I can take one for you. What exactly are you looking to see?

I get a TON of motivation, insight and information from threads here on Pelican. No matter how bad your restoration project seems, there's always some other sucker that's either been there already or has it worse! It's fantastic that some have been kind enough to document their experience to share w/others. Misery loves company!

Because I work so slowly, I'm waiting until I get a little further down the road before I start a dedicated documentation thread.

Tom
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:17 AM
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I would use OEM or harvested parts. The front suspension pan (aftermarket) I used for my fix is rusting again!
Old 01-11-2016, 09:21 AM
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Can you I'd your aftermarket source.
Old 01-11-2016, 04:51 PM
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Tom, you're clearly operating at a pretty high level already. (I'm an arch amateur by comparison.)'Your own Celette, with 911 fittings....manna from the Gods! I've seen that Barry Carter runs classes from time to time...goood excuse for a trip to GB? Please keep showing us pics of your work. Best, John
Old 01-11-2016, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeffries View Post
Tom, I'd suggest you check out the British site, DDK-Online, specifically at the restoration forum.

John in CT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim K View Post
John & Tim,

Just wanted to say a quick thank you for rekindling my interest & appreciation of the DDK-Online forums. I found the thread you mention and spent the better part of my afternoon NOT working, as I should have been... but, I made it through the whole thread and you were right, that fellow Barry is The Man. I foresee myself spending many hours over there reading & learning... I'm not sure how I'll be able to fit it all into my day - between work, sleep, eating and Pelican, there's not much leftover time as-is!

Thanks,
Tom
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 30westrob View Post
Can you I'd your aftermarket source.
See Post #6.

Tom
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeffries View Post
Tom, you're clearly operating at a pretty high level already. (I'm an arch amateur by comparison.)'Your own Celette, with 911 fittings....manna from the Gods! I've seen that Barry Carter runs classes from time to time...goood excuse for a trip to GB? Please keep showing us pics of your work. Best, John
John,

After bulldozing through that thread on the other forum, the thought of taking a trip across the pond to take a class from that fellow is something I would actually consider... Maybe a family trip w/a side show for me! (Already rationalizing!)

And while I may have a cool tool or two, I am still a weekend warrior at best. And at times I think that's even generous! Dedicated & committed, maybe. Skilled, not yet.

Tom
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryce Stallings View Post
I would use OEM or harvested parts. The front suspension pan (aftermarket) I used for my fix is rusting again!
Hi Ryce,

How'd you protect it? My guess is that any part will rust - OEM, harvested, repro. etc... doesn't matter - if it's not primed, painted and protected correctly, rust will happen. It's basic chemistry unfortunately.

Tom
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Old 01-12-2016, 06:13 AM
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So you solved the problem of a bent tub by buying a Celette bench?
nice
Old 01-12-2016, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastbay View Post
So you solved the problem of a bent tub by buying a Celette bench?
nice
: ) : )

Crazy I am, yes!

I ran into the age old saying, "if you want it done right, you need to do it yourself"... after monkeying around with a few different shops, which only netted increasing frustration, I did it myself!

That's the short version.
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'74 911 Red Sunroof Coupe, 3.6L, etc...

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Old 01-12-2016, 10:55 AM
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I was Restoration Design. They say their parts are galvaneal or something. They were primed and painted. The only thing I can come up with is that the original damage was from battery acid and maybe some lingered around. I did this work myself and did neutralize everything pretty well. It took about 10 years for the rust to happen again.
Old 01-12-2016, 10:59 AM
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Also only the suspension pan rusted, the gas tank support is still fine.
Old 01-12-2016, 11:01 AM
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So I'm not ready to start a dedicated project thread quite yet, but after reading through a few restoration threads on the DDK forum, I got all excited and put my '69 tub on the Celette bench yesterday to see how it looked... I love pouring over photos like these in other restoration threads, so I thought I'd add some here.







I started at the transmission mounts:



Then moved to the ends of the torsion tube. The tube centerline itself lines up great on the left side, and almost great on the right side. The cover bolt locations will need a little tweaking:







The front cross member mounts are almost right on. Especially considering I already cut out the front pan & floor:





Continued next post...
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Old 01-14-2016, 07:49 AM
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I need a complimentary jig set for pre-1971 cars that includes 4 pieces. 2 for the rear cross member and 2 for the front strut tops. I knew that the rear cross member was different but had a mini-panic attack about the strut tops when they were so far off. At least they were off symmetrically! A little research turned up the complimentary jig set....









So my plan is to work on the front end first. Got a ways to go!


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Old 01-14-2016, 07:50 AM
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