Petrolicious Rates Alfa V6 Higher Than Porsche Flat-6

[zaman fu]

I can entertain an argument about the Bimmer inline-6 being better than a Porsche air-cooled flat-6, but a Busso V6 as the greatest pre-1990 6-cylinder? What do I know.
http://www.petrolicious.com/the-top-ten-classic-six-cylinders-ever

[CCM911]

The 911 sounds bad? News to me. Unreliable? News to me. Do these folks even know what a 911 is? I don't think so.

[TheSt|G]

Odd list, especially seeing how frequently they have featured a 911.

That said, that Busso sounds pretty glorious if you have ever heard one in person.

[grizzfan]

Interesting about the Corvair flat-six being included. Somewhere in my cobwebby memory I recall reading that GM & Porsche collaborated on the development of the Corvair engine. Anybody remember that?

Tom

[2cam]

I've had a number of the 2.5 and 3.0 Alfa V6s over the years and yes, they sound FN amazing!!! I always said that there wasn't a better sounding motor for the pricepoint.

The only issue is that I lived in constant fear of a snapped timing belt sending the valves careening into pistons. So much so that I stopped driving V6 Alfas. It just wasn't worth the potential headaches.

2cam

[wayner]

In my youth when I was just starting to learn about sports cars I vividly remember my quest to find the sound of an Alpha. I tried to chase cars on my bike just to see if I could experience it. (and I thought elusive bird watchers were weird).

In 4 or 6 cylinder versions, all the magazines spoke of the legendary Alpha-song. A sound they guessed was attributed to the aluminum used, but nobody seemed to know exactly what created the alpha-song that no similar engines seemed to possess...

[Tom F2]

I love Alfas, but the list is a joke. Where are the Hispano-Suiza H6, the Jaguar and the TAG-Porsche engines. Heck, where is the pre-war Alfa six?

Anyway, everyone here knows that the Mezger engine is the greatest six of all time.

The folks at Petrolicious have lost credibility, with me.

[NICE 69 S]

Are there any really old guys out there who used to hang out at Ray Litz's Competition Engineering in Pasadena in the late sixties? One of his machinists, Jim Behrens, had a dune buggy with a VERY special Corvair engine.
Turbo crankshaft, special camshaft, forged big bore pistons. And the heads! Jim spent probably 100 hours on the heads. Moved the location of the intake valves so he could fit 2 inch (over 50MM) Corvette intake valves in. Lots of welding, individual intake ports etc. At the time he had a big Holly 4BBL carb on it, but showed me a set of 911R Weber 3BBL he was planning on installing. I am sure this engine had well over 200 HP (in a Dune Buggy!).
Gave me a ride one day. One of the fastest cars I have ever been in. And oh, the sound of his hand built headers. Jim was a very talented machinist and fabricator.

Bob Brawders

[Guvnor]

Originally Posted by grizzfan

Interesting about the Corvair flat-six being included. Somewhere in my cobwebby memory I recall reading that GM & Porsche collaborated on the development of the Corvair engine. Anybody remember that?

Tom

Close but not quite. Looks like it was based more on aircraft engines of the time. Karl Ludvigsen covered it in his 911 & Porsche World columns found here Karl Ludvigsen - 911 & Porsche World articles

[3literpwr]

I have owned both a e36 M coupe (240hp) and E46 M3 (340hp) in recent years... I now own a '81 and '87 911... I love my 911's, but the E46 340hp 8100 rpm six is an absolute gem of an engine... Then again it's a modern motor...

[Don Ivey]

I had an '87 Alfa Milano Verde (3.0 litre) and now have an '87 Carrera. I'd have to agree that if sound is the top priority, the Alfa wins, but as to mechanicalness and pulling power, the Porsche engine is wins. Just depends on priorities. I wish I still had the Alfa, and I'll never get rid of the Porsche.

[TheSt|G]

Originally Posted by 3literpwr

I have owned both a e36 M coupe (240hp) and E46 M3 (340hp) in recent years... I now own a '81 and '87 911... I love my 911's, but the E46 340hp 8100 rpm six is an absolute gem of an engine... Then again it's a modern motor...

The S54 is probably the best performance engine ever made.

[Bleedsblue]

I think you're missing a "best" up there.

I was surprised at Petrolicious' opinion that the 911 needs an exhaust to sound good. Above about 4k my stock 3.2 sounds glorious and ferocious.

I do prefer the S38 in my M5, but no denying the cool-factor of a dry-sumped air-cooled flat 6.

[grizzfan]

Guvnor states: Close but not quite. Looks like it (the Corvair engine) was based more on aircraft engines of the time. Karl Ludvigsen covered it in his 911 & Porsche World columns found here Karl Ludvigsen - 911 & Porsche World articles

Thanks. Interesting article; but there was quite a bit collaboration on many matters, maybe not the engine, between Porsche and GM, as the article reads.

Tom

[jittsl]

I have owned several of the engines listed there and I don't completely disagree with their scores And I loved the sound of my 2.5 Alfa and (for the motor only - the rest of the car was junk and slowly rotted away) I would rate it in front of the 911.

Of course I completely disagree that the 911 sounds anything less than superb and I have no idea where they get the unreliable idea from.

[clutch-monkey]

i don't disagree with them on the alfa, but..

buick 3800??? oh PLEASE
i would rate the S50/s54 above the M30, but again i suppose it is modern

[911pcars]

Just one person's preference. Let's not get too excited that not everyone agrees with us.

BTW, GM did contract with PAG on developing their engine, but that was before GM's bean counters took over. Later, an experimental engine appeared in the media that featured twin cams, rochester fuel injection and was beautiful. As with most concept designs that manufacturers are prone to introduce to generate interest, it never materialized.

Sherwood

[JeremyD]

dudes on drugs - no Toyota 2JZ-GTE?

BMW S54 has to be on there.

no Nissan VR38DETT?

No Metzger flat 6?

Nope not buying it

[Lapkritis]

Internet company... Younger people running it and probably regurgitating what they read elsewhere.

[911pcars]

Just read it. It's a reader's choice survey - as valid as this thread is objective.

If all Porsche owners responded to that survey, we vould vin! Ya, and the world would know. Apologies to native speakers.

Sherwood