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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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911SC Turbo - How to do it.

Used this forum to get some ideas on cold start problem on 1978 911SC Turbo. Custom BAE Rayjay(T04B) Turbo. Wisconsin 35F Saturday. One owner - me- 24 years.

Many of the following pictures will show how my setup is installed and the details behind it.

Decided to invesitigate cold start valve so had to remove both turbo discharge and intake pipes to the throttle body bonnet and the top of air sensor.

The discharge pipe to the throttle body was dripping fuel.
Looked down in the turbo discharge and it was half full of fuel!!
Had to use the fish tank siphon to siphon all the fuel out of the turbocharger.

Turns out the microfueler on the discharge pipe was leaking and as soon as the fuel pressure came up starting the car the microfueler (basically a cold start valve) would start leaking and filling the turbo with fuel.

Removed the microfueler from the discharge pipe and used a plug and clamp to block off the fuel line.
Used duct tape around the discharge pipe to seal the microfueler hole and put everything back together.

Didn't mess with the cold start valve. may not need to.

Noticed some hairline craks in a couple of the fuel lines to the injectors but nothing else.

Started up and amazing - everything seemed fine. Needed to adjust the basic idle after it warmed up.

Got to wait now until it gets cold Sunday and see if things are really better.

Now need to find a new microfueler. Can run without it as long as I take it easy. It uses a pressure switch on the discharge pipe to open it when the pressure comes up on the turbo. This is a way to richen up the mixture when you're on the boost ((above 3000RPM) and reduce/eliminate detonation but keep your normal AF mix under 3000RPM.

The microfueler was a 1973 Porsche 914 Cold Start Valve I believe. Very short pintle so it barely protruds into the discharge pipe. Equivalents will do as long as the pintle is very short.

Appreciated the ideas and found the forum quite useful.

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tsuter
78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!

Last edited by tsuter; 03-03-2003 at 03:36 PM..
Old 12-07-2002, 02:51 PM
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Has the car been "turbocharged" for the hole 20years? How many miles on it with the turbo installed?

Any mods to the engine internals or is it stock?
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Tony
'78 911SC with BITZRACING EFI conversion kit
Old 12-07-2002, 03:07 PM
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Turboed for 20 years

I put the turbo on in 1982 as soon as it was paid for (the car I mean). There are no modifications to the 3.0 motor other than Dilavar studs (at the time that was the decision). I lifted the heads and broke these studs in 1986 but it was a miss shift and failure of the rev limiter. Buried the tach at probably 10000. Replaced and have been fine ever since. 68,000 miles - so not a lot of driving. This is a play car.
I do not use an intercooler but do have a Callaway type microfueler to enrich the mixture under boost. That was what was leaking into the turbo discharge.
No EGR, Cat or Air Injection - got rid of that stuff when the turbo kit went in.
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tsuter
78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!
Old 12-07-2002, 03:22 PM
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Wow! that's great, 68K turbo miles and still running. For the mis shift did you have to replace any internals, or just the head studs?

How much boost are you running?
What is your ignition timing at?
Any boost retard?
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Tony
'78 911SC with BITZRACING EFI conversion kit
Old 12-07-2002, 03:28 PM
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drag racing the short bus
 
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Turbo SC

Are turbos like the one you're using still available? Ever have it dynoed?
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Old 12-07-2002, 03:29 PM
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On the miss shift just had to replace 24 studs, repair the case, main bearing and a bunch of little stuff. The block had to go to California to have the broken studs EDM'd out as they were exposed only about 1/4inch and the shop couldn't get them with vice grips or anything. Already had timeserts so couldn't drill them so the shop said have them EDM'd. That was it.

The Turbo kit was a BAE Turbo Kit from BAE in Torrance CA. They are long out of business as the only reason they were in business was that 1979 was the last 930 and people thought there would not be any more turbos at all so in 1980-84 or so the game was to turbo the 911SCs.
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tsuter
78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!

Last edited by tsuter; 03-02-2003 at 01:15 PM..
Old 12-07-2002, 03:58 PM
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Dyno

Never had it dyno tuned. Sport raced in Hawaii at EWA Beach and Dillingham and timed in 5.0 to 60 and 13.1 in the qtr with street tires. Got too expensive and I didn't want to blow up the motor so haven't done anything like that in years. Just a play car now.
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tsuter
78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!
Old 12-07-2002, 04:01 PM
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drag racing the short bus
 
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How about now?

Does anyone currently produce a turbo for SC motors?

Thanks.
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Old 12-07-2002, 04:06 PM
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I'm not aware of anyone that currently makes turbos for the 911SC. Probably EPA considerations and very limited market. The turbo is probably available but the bonnets for the throttle body and air sensor would have to be custom fabricated as would the down pipes. Gotta have a pop off valve or waste gate - that part is easy and easy enough to plumb it in. I ran the oil supply with a tee fitting off the oil pressure sending unit fitting and drain the turbo oil into the bottom of the left chain cover.
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78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!
Old 12-07-2002, 05:48 PM
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Boost

I run the boost at 9-11 lbs. That is mechanically adjustable on the turbo waste gate from 3-5 lbs up to about 16. No cockpit controls - gotta get in there and basically shim the thing with washers - more washers = more boost.

Static timing is set at 5 degrees BTDC at idle and 25 degress @4500. The distributor has been modified to mechanially limit total advance to 20 degrees.

Fuel line pressure is stock as I use a supplemental fuel enrichment system aka Callaway Microfueler to richen things up over 3500RPM and limit/stop detonation. Run 91-93 octane pump gas. If I get detonation it is easier to lower the boost than fool with the microfueler so over the years I have found 9-11lbs boost to be fine for pump gas.

Air pump removed, air injectors removed and plugs put in the holes.
EGR removed and throttle body holes capped off.
Can't pressurize the system with those holes.
Decel valve removed and some rerouting of the auxilliary air valve lines to the throttle body.

Note 3/02/03: Running wastegate at 6lbs and boost controller at 1-2 more for about 7-8 pounds with new Tialco wastegate.
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tsuter
78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!

Last edited by tsuter; 03-02-2003 at 01:21 PM..
Old 12-08-2002, 04:45 AM
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911SC Turbo Schematic

Figured out how to post a drawing of the turbo. Will try and take pictures later. Thanks to Ray and Souk got the camera!
Parts all over right now and new TurboXS boost controller to try with the Tialco 35mm wastegate.
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tsuter
78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!

Last edited by tsuter; 03-03-2003 at 08:08 AM..
Old 03-02-2003, 01:10 PM
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Thad, glad we had the opportunity to meet. Now that you have the digicam, I hope to see lots more pictures of the setup and the car. Can't wait to see the car after all the works been done to it. Hope you make the spring run, with the SC-T or the VW.
Old 03-03-2003, 06:44 AM
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Wastegate install

Tialco 35mm Wastegate installed in exhaust header to turbocharger.
Wisconsin road salt!!!

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78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!
Old 03-03-2003, 09:30 AM
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More of the wastegate

Two more of the wastgate positioning and custom exhaust. Causes the china to rattle and scares the neighbors.



And the exhaust...




Two into one Exhaust header:

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78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!
Old 03-03-2003, 10:04 AM
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tsuter,
Could you tell me at what rpm your on boost?
And your compressor housing A/R? turbine A/R?
...and a pic of your exh Y pipe?
Thanks for any help you can provide me
Tim in Sac
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Old 03-03-2003, 10:14 AM
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Turbo Position

Here is a shot of the turbo positioning at left rear.



Here is one a little further away. No stainless for me yet. Maybe that iron will rust through one of these days!!

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tsuter
78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!
Old 03-03-2003, 10:17 AM
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AAR/AAV/EGR etc.

To manage the cold start and start up air AAR/AAV (because the Throttle Body/Sensor Plate Boot is gone) some hoses need to be rerouted directly to the upper throttle body air source and others capped on the TB.

The first image shows the EGR removed and both EGR nipples capped on the TB. The Decel valve is also removed and the lower Decel nipple is capped on the TB. The AAV and AAR air hose is rerouted to the TB upper nipple where the Decel formerly attached.



The next photo more clearly shows the capped connections. The hose at the top (off picture almost) goes to the AAR/AAV. The lower hose is to the thermo valve - normal.



This next image shows the AAR/AAV hose necking down to a smaller hose that is then routed to the upper throttle body air source instead of the boot which is gone. The air supply to the intake manifold from the AAR/AAV near the CSV is not changed.

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tsuter
78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!
Old 03-03-2003, 10:34 AM
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sorry if I sideline this but tsuter where in WI are you?.. I bought my 73 in milwaukee
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Old 03-03-2003, 10:35 AM
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I'm just west of Madison, WI.Not so much road salt in NC except maybe THIS Winter!.

My turbocharger is a Rayjay ++ TO4B is my best guess. The boost comes on late around 3500. Normal driving 2000-3500 you don't really know that it is there. But at 3500-5500 you really feel it. I will post a photo of the fuel enrichment setup used to increase horsepower and avoid knock.
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tsuter
78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!

Last edited by tsuter; 03-03-2003 at 10:52 AM..
Old 03-03-2003, 10:40 AM
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Boost control and Enrichment

Here is a photo of the boost control line on the Turbo Outlet pipe just before the top of the throttle body. The flange used to have a large mechanical BOV which I removed as it was venting enriched Air/fuel mixture onto a hot motor - bad idea. So now the line goes to the wastegate. I will be putting an additional boost controller in this line. TBD.



This next image is the fuel enrichment set up. It is a 1973 Bosch 914 CSV activated by a 3.0 lb pressure switch. Both are located in the Turbo outlet pipe before the throttle body. At three lbs boost, the mixture is enriched. I used to have two of these . One at 3 and one at 7. But now just one at 3.0 lbs.


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78 911SC Turbo Targa
Thaaaats Right!!
Old 03-03-2003, 10:50 AM
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