'88 3.2L to 964

[Techno Duck]

Just looking for some devils advocate. At a bit of a crossroads on whether to keep my 3.2L or not. Purchased a year ago, absolutely love it. Mostly original and a very well kept drivers car with 164k on it currently. Spent the past year doing a mechanical restoration; brakes, engine, fuel lines, and some interior bits. My intent was to make it a fun weekend / canyon car. Ive started gearing up for the suspension, planned to keep it all rubber with up rated torsion bars; nothing too
crazy. After that the plan was to overhaul the a/c to make it somewhat usable.

I'm trying to simplify my life a little and i think i am 95% sure i will sell my track car by years end. I have three cars right now, limited time to drive them and only garage space for two. I keep the track car in a storage unit which is money down the drain every month. Luckily i can borrow my friends truck to tow but i miss the days of driving to and from. The trailer is nice, but its a lot of baggage also. Ive had the track car almost 9 years (started out as my daily), so its time to move on also considering that car has taken up almost 1/3 of my life. Downsizing to just my daily and one fun car is the direction i want to go.

So the first thing most will ask is whats the problem? Well maybe it will sound absurd to most but i almost feel guilty bringing the 3.2L to the track. For some reason i see this car as too much of a classic rather than something i wouldn't mind resto modding a bit and beating on. Enter the 964; this model has grown on me considerably the last few months and i wonder if it may be a better start for what my end goals are. I think they are a good mix of old and new and strangely i dont think i would feel bad about beating on one. Maybe because i dont get that 'classic' vibe when i see it.

So i am a bit of a crossroads with the 3.2L right now. Drop another $3-4k into the suspension to completely overhaul it, then another $1-1.5k into the a/c to make it blow semi-cold. Or sell the 3.2L and track car to fund a 964 build.

Why the 964 appeals to me? Far better electrical system, better HVAC, better long distance cruiser (the 3.2L to me is sort of high strung cruising at 75-80mph). My goal would be to turn it into a 30% track /70% street car. The 3.2L i think is too nice to do anything but 100% street with.

I'd love to keep the 3.2L; classic looks and its a great color. I know its one that would be very hard to replace.

The constant shuffle of cars will never end with me..

[Sicklyscott]

I hear ya on not using the 3.2 as a track car. I'm having the same dilemma with my SC. The 964 will be a step up in certain areas and a step down in others. It would probably make a better cruiser and "maybe" a better track car because of the extra torque and coil over suspension.

I would say though your 3.2 will keep going up in value, probably quicker than the 964 (and will outpace your expenses on storage).

It'll be hard to replace that 948 you have though.

[HorstP]

I don't know about the States but over here 964 and 3.2 are now at the same price level. The 964 is a better platform to begin with and with similar amount of money invested will be a faster car. I believe the fun driving both cars are however quite similar, even with a slightly slower 3.2. So if you have now a very good 3.2 and don't want to track it, with a very good 964 you will have the same problem.

I have a 3.2 and track it once in a while, if I would start over again, I would start with a 964 instead.

[Matt Monson]

As Horst said, both here and there, the 3.2s and 964s are kind if moving in lock step. You will "devalue" whichever one you make your track mule. 165k isn't low mileage. It may be in good condition but you don't have a collector caliber car. I personally wouldn't feel guilty tracking it.

The 964 has both more power and more comfort. There's something to be said for that. I'm not a fan of the stock bumpers or retractable tail, but to each their own.

Same basic gearbox in both, so that doesn't matter. Brakes and suspension on 964 are superior.

I dunno. Do what makes you smile. There's no wrong answer with this decision.

[HorstP]

I forgot to say. As you have a track car already, you know what to expect on the track. Go track you 3.2 once, as we all know it will not hurt it and find out if you like it. If it is so far from what you expect, throwing money in rebuilds will probably not change it's character altogether.

I like the 3.2, don't get me wrong.

[creaturecat]

i owned a 3.2. slightly different, it was an '85 Euro car. with 45000 original miles.
went to a '91 C2 manual. absolutely no regrets. love the 964.
however. that looks like a sweet car, i would probably keep it.

[Bill Douglas]

What ever car you use, there will be a "next step up" or a better car around.

I'd stick with that beautiful '88, learn to drive it very well, and enjoy it as it is.

[umgang]

Gorgeous Carrera you have there

You are blending a lot of topical lines here: track car vs street car; values and potential future values; and the inherent driving experiences.
So i will be your devil's advocate.

Track time-> When you say "track time" are you talking Autocross, DE / lapping days on a race track, or wheel to wheel racing with a sanctioning body like PCA Club Racing ,NASA, SCCA?
Anything but limited track time will beat the crap out of your car no matter how OCD you are about it.

The idea of a dual purpose street / track car is an oxymoron. There are pluses and minuses; and the tables tilt to the more you suit the car to track use, the less friendly it is on the street. And the more damage it will sustain. Not necessarily crash damage; but stress to the chassis, and all the working parts. And it will devalue the car.

Monetary value->Funny thing is, that my 75 911S at the time i transformed it toward track use, was not worth much and derided by many as a terrible year for 911s. So potential value later was not a worry.
Then the same thing happened with 964's a few years later.
Now both have become valuable. A lot of the early air cooled cars (1968-1994) were turned into race cars and beaters; and this is exactly why they are more scarce and valuable now.
Your 3.2 falls into this category, as does my 87 Carrera.

Driving experiences-> for track use and racing lightweight is imperative. Though the 964 is a better platform, easier to drive fast...it is way heavier and the things you would have to do to it to lose that weight would be detrimental to it's enjoyment on the street.

Lastly, it has always been stated, and i have to agree, that the 1984-1989, and specifically the 1987-1989 Carreras are the best built, most trouble free, long lasting of all the air cooled 911s.
hope this helps_

[SoyRacer]

I don't understand the thought process so allow me to offer a different approach.
1- Buy two four post storage lifts to make the two car garage a four car garage
2- Get the track car out of storage (storage costs could've paid for lifts already)
3- Buy a 964 and keep the whole fleet
4- Enjoy each one when you can -

Any questions ?

[porschenut]

I've never owned or driven a 964, but I've owned a 993 in addition to 3 different 3.2s. The 993 is basically a 964 with updated exterior styling, so I think I'm qualified to comment. I found the 993 to be a faster, more modern car, but less fun. I've also owned a brand new 997 Carrera S and that was the least fun of all despite its obvious superiority over anything else I've had. The 3.2 (and SC I'm sure) is a special experience that you won't get with anything that came after it.

[umgang]

What Dave says is a good addition to my diatribe under " driving experience".
The 964 is a little more physical and connected than the 993 but they are both VERY different than the early cars. My 1975 911s and 1987 Carrera are closer in driver experience than the 87 is to the 91 964.
I would agree if you are looking for the quintessential 911 driving experience, stay with your 3.2 Carrera.
( I'm just getting old and the 964 seems so easy ______LOL!

[Techno Duck]

Appreciate all the comments, its helpful to hear opinions other than my own reasoning which allowed for me to justify 3 cars (it was 4 up until last year) in the first place.

Rich, ceiling height is the enemy otherwise i would have a two post already! I probably wouldn't even notice losing my living room as i spend most of the time in the garage anyway!

Umgang, track time for me is strictly DE / lapping days and autocross. I do want to get into time trials as its quite popular in SoCal. I know dual purpose cars are all compromise, believe me my 944T started out on that route, Rich (SoyRacer) can attest to that having done the alignment on it a bunch.

The wear and tear doesnt bother me much as i am pretty obsessive when it comes to maintaining my cars. I do understand with a 964 you get a bit of a diluted experience, but i think a properly setup one on the track can still be a heck of alot of fun. Ive had alot of fun with my 944T over the years and at 380whp its FAST. Maybe im just getting old but its too fast for me, the limits of the car are too great. I kind of want to go back to basics with a nicely setup suspension and a stock engine.

Like you alluded to maybe i'm getting old but the slightly more GT'ish direction the 964 and 993 went appeals to me a little. For example, i travel between SoCal and Vegas often to visit my parents, 4.5-5hrs of straight highway across a literal desert. I couldn't imagine making this trip in my 3.2L. A combo of the poor a/c (recharging the system with $1500 and R12 will help a little)and the relatively short 5th gear 3500rpm cruising at 75mph makes it a bit tiring to drive for me. This goes for driving between 2.5-4hrs to and from the track also. On the other hand i love the car; both its looks and its simplicity. And running around the canyons and along coast in such a raw and direct car is a blast. Also only having one fluid dripping on my garage floor is fantastic!

Speaking about value you guys all make good points. I guess with my 3.2L i am more concerned about bastardizing just a really nice car for the sake of a little more speed on the track (Already did that with my 944T). I have my eyes on a 964 for sale right now that already is nicely equipped for the track, so much of that investment for setup has already been made (roll bar, seats, suspension..etc). So i guess in some respects the car is already devalued.

[Busta Rib]

It sounds to me you have already made up your mind to pull the trigger on the 964 and are seeking some validation. Go with your gut. It is usually always right. Nice first world problem to have. Good luck with your decision. Can't go wrong with either choice.

[umgang]

Techno Duck_ your reasoning is all spot on for an 964 ownership.
I love mine and i drive it everyday. My commute to and from the city is 150 miles round trip.
I put 24,000 miles on mine last year. And love every minute of it.
I could not fathom doing that in the 75 or the 87 Carrera- it would beat me silly.

You will love the 964- it still retains the classic looks, still has "Porscheness" and is not at all numb or disconnected like the water cooled cars.

If you have the chance to own both your Carrera and the 964 at the same time, go out and drive them back to back, it is quite a revelation.

[0396]

Drop a 3.6 in and keep your 3.2 for future potential sale of your car.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Techno Duck

...better long distance cruiser (the 3.2L to me is sort of high strung cruising at 75-80mph).
...

According to this chart, I don't see the difference between the two.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads12/mostg50s1205937333.gif

I would get the 993 instead if creature comfort is a factor.

[impactbumper]

Honestly, if you have to have an aircooled 84-89 is the way to go. pass that, given the market, I would totally skip 964-993 craziness and land myself back in a 997 which is a superior car in any and all aspects. 2008+

[Bleedsblue]

There is no doubt the 964 is a better cruiser than the 3.2. You can't deny the convenience of power steering, hydraulic clutch, etc, though on long drives those don't really come into play (more in traffic). I find the 3.2 is a solid road tripper (I've taken it on a 1000+ mile trip), but I agree that fast cruising in 5th makes me wish for an overdriven 6th (I also have a full Griffiths A/C set-up in mine, so at least climate control is updated).

If I went for a 964, I would undoubtedly build a "Growler" type lightened, PS-deleted RS-wannabe (on a budget). I'm pretty sure clean cars built like that are not devalued in the slightest, particularly when starting with a good or merely average condition 964.

That might be a perfect 30% track/70% street compromise, Mr. Duck, if more sound deadening is kept in the car. The "Growler" even retained A/C.

Originally Posted by umgang

Gorgeous Carrera you have there

I mainly wanted to say this ^

Edit: forgot the 964 doesn't have a 6th gear

[Tremelune]

Ratted-out Miata with a hardtop, man. Get one with an LS if you want more. Still cheaper than the most of what you're describing, and gives you full flexibility.

That 3.2 is gorgeous. All 964s are uggo...

[pkabush]

Originally Posted by Tremelune

Ratted-out Miata with a hardtop, man. Get one with an LS if you want more. Still cheaper than the most of what you're describing, and gives you full flexibility.

That 3.2 is gorgeous. All 964s are uggo...

Here's an exception