Thanks...I will go and try it out right now... Will get back ASAP.

Fuses and fuse bar photo - '86 Carrera Cab
 

I haven't jumpered anything yet. I'll send this first for you to have a look.

As you may be able see, my TOP 9th, count from the left, has a 16 Gage black wire and the Bottom has one large red wire with a black stripe.

My TOP 10th, count from the left, has two 16 Gage wires - One is black with a purple stripe, and the other is red with a black stripe.

The Bottom of 10: Two of them are a larger red with white stripes; one is solid red, the last - 4th is red with a black stripe.

The TOP 8th, count from the left, has the large red with a yellow stripe and a 16 Gage red with a black stripe.

The Bottom of the 8th, has one 16 Gage solid black wire.

I have none with a brown wire of any Gage at the top nor bottom of the fuse bar.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1466484312.jpg

You have made this troubleshooting effort overly complex. It should only take 5-10 minutes
(15 at the most) to find the problem if you had followed the explicit instructions of the
many helpful posters. You need to re-read this thread!

Again, do you have a good #30 power at the DME relay? That should have been your starting point. You can eliminate all the fuse efforts by focusing on the DME relay and the #30 power and
jumping it.

Correct. Connect fuse 9 an 10 at the top.

Then run a wire from battery to fuse 10 top and try to start.

Hi Ingo...Unfortunately the relay never 'clicked' when jumping the bottoms of 9 & 10. Jumping from the battery+ to 10 of course was a was a no start, with 9 & 10 jumped.

Is there a way to check 'something' from the secondary ignition/fuel injection stage of the relay? As previously mention, when the points for the pump are manually closed, the pump will turn on. I have held both points closed but also get a 'no start'.

So when you place the jumper between fuse 9 and 10 can you verify that you see power on both with the key in RUN? If yes continue to trace the power to the DME relay stage 1.The next 'way station' is the alarm module. A blk/red wire to pin 1 (term15) on the two-pin connector on the alarm module receives power from the ignition switch and it will come out of the alarm module on pin 4 (87a) on a black wire if no alarm condition is present. So both connectors need to be plugged in. If you eliminate the alarm module you need to jumper pin 1 (term15) to pin 4 (term87a) on the harness to the alarm module.

Ingo

Re: " between fuse 9 and 10 can you verify that you see power on both with the key in RUN?"...Yes, the power is coming from 10 to 9. Both had power but no action on the relay.

The alarm has not been used for years, mainly due to a lost key. On the door, the key slot is vertical. Because it could be the problem, I jumper'd it, as you described, a few days ago.

Can you suggest any thing else to test?


Thanks so much for your input. Much appreciated.

A simple step at this point is to use two paper clips to jumper/bypass the DME relay:
30 to 87 & 30 to 87b on the connector for the DME relay. At this point the engine should
run. If it does, then you would work back to determine why the relay doesn't function, e.g.
wiring/fuses/alarm. If it doesn't, then work forward to determine what can be causing the ECU
to not function, e.g. reversed pickup sensors, bad ECU, etc. You can then verify that power is
on pins 1, 18, 35 of the ECU. It's that simple. It should take 5 minutes at the most to do this.

Sorry for all your wasted effort in possibly being mis-led in troubleshooting in this thread.
Seventy posts in a simple troubleshooting effort is very unfortunate.

I think he did that but did not report any results e.g. the fuel pump runs or the DME now has power. Just said the car didn't start.

O.K. Then he should have focused his efforts there:
1. Are the sensors reversed? Check the sensor voltages to determine that.
2. Is there an injector pulse? Use the LED tester.
3. Does the ICV vibrate?
4. Check for spark. If a spark, use carb cleaner in the intake to start.
5. Find another 3.2 to plug the ECU in, or send it out for testing.

Dave - Rick, thanks again for your input.
All of the above has been done, including numerous other tests.
I have read and applied all of the inputs.

It had been a matter of rechecking everything that was done, including removing the speed and reference sensors. The new O2 and head sensor check out. My old relay that was working including the spare that I have look as new and no cracks etc. can be found in either of them.

The ECU is also as new inside; not even any dust. Under magnification there are no solder flaws. There are a few more re checks to do with the alarm system.

It will come down to a ECU check but I do not no of anyone close by to have checked it out. They are about $850.00 Canadian, which I will spend if that's what it is.

Please understand that 'Ischmitz' fix's these things as a business. His help, including '1986 911 Targa'- a diehard Porsche guy, who is retired electrical engineer, has all 911 electrical manuals, who I communicate back and forth by email, has not as stated in context: "unfortunately you have been provided misleading info' ... It's been the very opposite!

This note in no way is meant to offend you nor anyone else but what you have been suggesting had been posted and tired in several different combinations.

They are just trying to help me check every avenue prior to refurbishing the ECU for, with tax, $650.00 + Canadian.

BTW Dave, I will take contributions if you want to chip in :)

Take care, and and half a good day.

Again, thanks for both of your inputs.

Some great news for me...
 

Some great news for me, at the moment that is, but no prize yet.

Both of the DCE relays are working, one when turning to ACC, and the second one closes when the starter engages. The ICV is now humming away, 'but' I do not have spark at the plugs. It appears that I'm now as close as I can get, at the moment, to hearing it run again.

On the ECU connector:

Power on:
1+

14+
15+

18+
20+
35+ with a smaller amount?...On 34 and 33.

I had one big sigh of relieve after I finally found out what the the cause was for having no 'power'... Of all things, it was due to having dirty points in the the alarm module!.. Crazy eh! It was a 'check' suggestion from '1986 911 Targa'.

Now, if someone won't mind to continue to assist me, I need to know how to check for a 'no spark' issue. It would be much appreciated...Thanks in advance!

I did a Pelican Forum search and found this:

Here you have not checked for grounds:

Have you actually measured the voltage on the sensors, which will verify their proper connections?

You have not checked for an injector pulse (need your LED thing or noid light) here:

Ok, now that the ICV is humming you have a powered DME. Great news. The next checks need to focus on the speed and reference sensors. If they are reversed or their gap isn't correct the engine won't fire.

Checking for the speed sensor and whether it's plugged into the correct socket on the engine tower is very straight forward: Disconnect the DME and measure on the harness connector pin 8 and pin 27 with a voltmeter set to AC. When you crank you should see around 2V AC.

For the reference sensor use you LED test light (I seem to remember you built one) and connect it to pin 25 and pin 26 and check for single flash per revolution.

If both tests check out (and please do them again now) your DME needs to issue fuel and spark signals. If not I'd check for the gap of the reference sensor one more time or something inside the DME is wrong.

Ingo

You can send the ECU to Pelican for testing and/or rebuilding if necessary. The cost from them
should be less than what you posted early, but do a check in the Pelican Parts catalog.

Thanks Ingo...I haven't tried to see if I have 2V AC when cranking since finding the alarms dirty contact-points issue out late this afternoon. I will, for sure, check it out in the morning.

I have though re-pulled the speed sensor so as to make sure that the gap was correct. It was definitely bottoming out on the ring gear. I then tightened the two bolts up on the bracket.

This time around, the second new sensor, I calibrated my old sensors overall length with the 8mm washer glued to it, and the length of it was spot on. Once I had the new sensor back in, I tested it with the diode that I had soldered a 220 ohm watt resistor onto...It did the trick. The speed sensor, when turning the motor over, lit up very brightly when the diode pins were in 27 and 8 on each revolution, and the reference sensor, on pins 25 and 26 were not so bright, which one would expect. The reference sensor, as you know, is in its own sleeve which allows it to sit at the correct distance from the flywheel once the speed sensor is set correctly.

I did run a continuity test on the car's harness for the three sensors, which also confirmed that they were the correct plugs for the speed and reference sensors at the DCE's connector pins, and in their correct slot on the bracket. Head- Speed- Reference.

Like you just mentioned, it may be within the ECU... I checked around today see if the Porsche dealer that I go to could help me out, but they never had a classic model. They recently had three, but they must have sold them. If I need to have it checked out, the best place for me will be to send it to CA... I'm first though going to replace the alarm module just to make sure, that during my DCE relay tests, that I didn't somehow accidently burn a capacitor, or the likes of, out. That also may be the current reason why that I have no spark.

I'll make a post after I try for the 2 V AC in the morning.

Thanks 'again' for your info.

Ah man, sorry to read your troubles.

If I may suggest, start a thread if a Pelican in your area with a 3.2 can allow you to place your DME into their car to eliminate it as a culprit. Note, your DME into their car, not the other way around, if your car is the issue it may damage their DME.

I have lent my car to many local Pelicans to test their DME, I have not had an issue doing this.

Jim

Howdy Jim...Yes, the 'no start' did become quite a frustrating thing to find...To say the least. Alarm contact-points of all things!...One for your notebook eh :)

Thanks for the good suggestion...I'll make a post right now.

Take care Bud!

BTW Jim...What years of 3.2's ECU's should I ask for?