Eeeek! Driving tips please!!! (Should be best christmas gift!)

[Dana_Drury]

Hello all,

Firstly a merry christmas and happy new year to all the Pelican heads here, I want to say a quick thanks to all of you for all your help through out the year as I got my car (3.0L Carrera Targa) back on the road...

Well after a year, my car is finally done. I took delivery off the beast on Friday afternoon after a complete rewire of the car. We put in a Carrera oil cooler this afternoon (to fix my heat issues, which now seem to be phantom.... aaarrk!) and off I went... Until it started to rain..

Now I have never driven a Porsche in the rain... it is an experience that I don't want to soon repeat.

I would consider myself an 'okay' driver, and I have been treating my Porsche with kid gloves but I had some hairy incidents tonight that I am in no rush to repeat.

I have replaced all the suspension etc on the car - the only thing left is an alignment and balance so I don't think its mechanical... But, tonight, going around two corners doing about 25 mph the back decided that it would slide out slightly, and I had to correct it, swung back the other way and then I had to correct again.

I had set up for the corner properly, didn't brake during the corner and was taking it quite carefully. I was accelerating through the corner, so I didn't think it was because of weight transfer.

I have Porsche driver training in January, so I hope that this will give me more of a idea of how to handle the car. Unfortunately I am only used for FFW cars, so this is all new. I assume that I just need skid pad practice?

Any tips so I don't end up writing my car off (even though I am driving really... really carefully.... )

[Victor]

Sounds strange. What state are your tires in?

[Dana_Drury]

Almost brand new Pirelli P600's. Car has had a huge amount of work done on it especially in the suspension area, including brand new Bilstien struts front and rear.

Granted, the road was quite oily because we haven't had rain for a few weeks and have had 40 deg (c) days on and off.

[dickster]

Almost brand new Pirelli P600's.

if they've only covered a few miles it could be the reason, should be ok after a couple hundred miles.

otherwise get a lsd!!

[jmohn]

This does sound like a tire problem. I drive my car in all types of summer weather (it's my summer daily driver) and have found the car to be very stable. I think it's actually more stable in wet weather than a light duty pickup with no weight in the box (that's my winter daily driver, BTW). Of course, I choose my tires for good all-around performance rather than ultimate grip in the dry and prefer not to "stretch" their life to the very end of treadwear, you do need some tread depth for good grip in the wet. Are you using differing tires front and rear? Tire pressures OK? Toed out at the rear? (I would think this would make the rear tend to "wander").

Jerry M
'78 SC

[Dana_Drury]

Same tires front and rear (all replaced at once).

The tire pressure thing occured to me after I posted, when I dropped the car off the tire pressures were fine, but that was months ago, so it didn't occur to me the change.

In the dry, the car was a demon, no problems, but that wandering rear really spooked me.

There is possibilty that the toe could have changed when the shocks were replaced, so I need that including alignment and balance done (as soon as I can pretty much).

I thought maybe I just wasn't doing something right. I will check the pressures tomorrow.

[jmohn]

I assume you meant "P6000", I had P7000's on my 951 a few years ago and found them to be very good in the rain, so I wouldn't think it was the tires (and it only takes a few, 40-50, miles to wear the glaze off new tires). I think you probably found the reason when you said this was the first rain for several weeks, as you know roads are very slick when they're first rained on, combined with cold tires. Rear mis-alignment may have also played a part, but you're going to get that fixed. The bottom line is, it doesn't sound like you did anything "wrong", just a combination of circumstances. I guess it warns us all to be "alert" when the weather changes.

Hope you get it all sorted out; Happy Holidays,

Jerry M
'78 SC

[Jcon]

Sounds like tires. Are your tires new as in recently purchased or new as in been on the car a few years, but have 90% tread left. I had the same problem with my SC when I bought it. The tires were 90% of tread, but 4 years old and the aging made them act almost greasy. I put on new set of toyos and I had it on the wet skid pad at Mosport and had to fight like hell to kick the back end out. Anyway just my experience.

[masraum]

When I first got my car because of everything that I had heard about the 911 handling I expected them to be a nightmare in the rain. My car handles so well in the rain that I haven't been willing to go looking for the limit. I have pushed my comfort level in the rain to the point that I am very confident with my car in the rain (confident, not careless or stupid). If your car is handling that poorly in the rain it is due either to the new tires or the fact that you need an alignment/balance after suspension work. The balance can make a big difference in handling. Imagine that your right front and left rear are carrying most of the weight of the car. That can make for very odd results.

Get the alignment and balance done and on a good day go out and push the tires pretty hard to wear them in.

You should be able to scare yourself in the rain because the car won't break loose, not because it does.

[Eric Mckenna]

NEVER LIFT OFF THE THROTTLE WHEN YOU START TO DRIFT THE REAR OR WHEN COMMING INTO A HARD CORNER>> IF YOU LIFT YOU WILL SPIN HER AROUND & AROUND!....
Eric Mckenna
78SC

[Dana_Drury]

My tires are new as in just over a year old with about 1500 km's on them. The only thing is that the car has been sitting having a bunch of work done to it for a year and this is the first time it has now been taken out, so I don't know if this would affect the tires?

I will get the balance done and check the pressures then see how I go, if it continues I will replace the tires.

Any recommendations as far as tires are concerned. This is a 1977 911 with 15 inch rims I believe.

P.S. (I know well about the throttling off in a hard corner, which I didn't do...)

[Deeks]

"Unfortunately I am only used for FFW cars, so this is all new."

- assuming that here you're saying that you are only used to front wheel drive cars, then this might be where the problem lies.

Rear engined + rear-wheel drive = totally different kettle of fish

Whereas fwd cars sometimes have a tendency to understeer if pushed too hard through a corner, mid/rear engined cars will oversteer if the power is layed down too early (many will argue that isn't always a bad thing )

Welcome to the world of oversteer.

Merry Xmas everyone ....

[Dana_Drury]

Yeah only front engined, front wheel drive cars, and nothing with that amount of power. I was aware of the oversteer that these cars can have, plus the tendancy to lose the back end should weight transfer rapidly to the front (i.e. braking during a turn)... But I didn't realise to this extent.

Only time will tell, once I have a balance and alignment done then I will be able to see, also it may be my hesitation because the car is completely unfamilar to me.

[JEB]

If the car has been sitting I would check for flat spots (does it ride like a buckboard) - dry rot - and broken belts. They can all effect handeling and would I think be multiplied in the wet.

My car goes pretty well in the rain - much better than I expected - with new S-03's.

Jeb
79 930

[dickster]

i have the p6000's.

i had them on my old bmw and they were superb wet or dry. thats why i went with them on the 911.

i have been disappointed though, they're just not as assured on the 911, and on the track they got pretty chewed up from sliding.

i have found that it doesn't take much to get some slip in the rear on wet roads, but i've got lsd which really takes the sting out of it. i don't think i'd be so happy driving in the wet without it - not with these tyres anyhow.

i'm gonna try something stickier next time, you might wanna think about it.

cheers

[k9handler]

Eric is on the right track....

Think of it as a level issue...and you must keep the car level.
I had a driving instructor explain this in detail and every since it's just got better!!!

[no substitute]

The main rain problem I worry about is standing water aquaplaning, but not a plain wet surface. I live in the Seattle region, and rain driving is the norm. I feel confident, even while gently pushing it (not carelessly). I run RE730's, and while they can be made to slide a little, they have quite a bit of stick. It is a fine line between too much and just enough throttle. Smooth and gentle squeezing of the throttle and brake pedals are the key. Perhaps you hit a spot where some oil had floated to the top of the water film. Anyway, slow down until you get used to all those horses behind you. If you slide or heat up the tires on dry surfaces, you will over time, lose stick, because of super heating and attendant hardening of the tire rubber.

[Dana_Drury]

Yeah the road was pretty shocking actually, very rough and you don't get much traction on normal days on the particular road, it felt like aquaplanning, but I have only experienced the same sensation in a front wheel car, where it spins and slides...

Thanks for all your advice!