Bringing a 78 911SC back to life

[wakeupct]

Hey all,

So I have recently acquired a 78 911SC. This is my first 911. Finally.
The car currently doesn't run. The PO had the fuel system removed to be reworked. The fuel tank is out as is the injectors and fuel distributor. I have the parts but will be replacing many of them due to their current condition. The PO said the fuel distributor was "reconditioned". Lets hope that means it works!

I was planning to clean out the fuel tank. Phosphoric acid wash with a segment of chain. Then POR-15 treatment. However after I looked in the tank, I think the rust is more than I want to mess with. So I'm planning to get the Dansk repro tank and then sell the original tank to someone who is looking to do an original restoration. Good idea?

My other questions is if I should remove the fuel injector sleeves and get new ones or go with the ones that are in the engine? I am worried of dropping debris in the intake. I thought I would vacuum out each injector port after taking out the sleeves. Is that too risky?

So once I replace the tank and the injectors and install the fuel distributor and get a new air mix boot, I should be ready to crank the car over and see if she fires.

I am also keeping documentation of the car on a blog at:
Projekt 911SC
I put some pictures there so you can see what I'm getting into I plan to document all my work.

Comments welcome. Thanks all.

Pete

[wakeupct]

So i decided to go with the new tank. I ordered it today along with a bunch of fuel injection parts. I decided to replace the injector sleeves as well. Mine are staked so i plan to use my dremel to grind them off. I'll plan to make a video of this too.


Pete

[KNS]

If I recall the sleeves and/or injectors had little O rings or seals, replace those as well.

[allaircooled]

I changed out the injector sleeves on my car. You can read about it in my thread "Bringing my midyear back to life" KNS is right, there are o rings that go around the sleeve as well as the injector o ring. Not a difficult job. I would be very cautious about doing it with the intake runners still attached to the engine. Don't want nothing to drop down in there. I removed all mine.

[wakeupct]

Thanks for advice. I ordered all the o-rings for injector replacement. I still need to get the crush washers for the distributor.
I will be trying this without removing the runners. I will plug the hole before grinding the stake.
I ordered the fuel tank as well. Any advice what I should do before replacing the tank? I was going to clean up the chassis down there. Anything else? I'm not planning on replacing the fuel line. I read that job is easier when the engine/tranny is removed. I expect to do that next year.

[allaircooled]

Yeah with the engine and transmission removed, replacing the tunnel fuel lines was pretty easy and I did them by myself. Don't forget there is a seal that goes under the fuel tank. Kind of looks like a thick foam weather stripping you could pick up at a home improvement store.

[75 911s]

Looks like a cool project. Lots of potential. Already has a killer stance.

[impactbumper]

Looks like you got your hands full. Enjoy the process, sometimes the build is more fun than driving these things


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[strictly]

new tank was the right move.

Start with the basics before moving on to the fuel injection, i would NOT touch that as my first point of call.

Do you have spark? Check with a spark plug in a lead on a ground.

If you have spark and no fuel, then with the ignition on, lift the air flap in the airbox, the fuel pump should run.

If not, then take the fuel pump relay out and put a wire (with a fuse inline just in case) between 30 and 87a, if the fuel pump dosent run, check you have power at 30 where the relay goes (red relay). if you have, then check the fuel pump works (good earth).

if you have spark and fuel, then it should run even roughly despite the age.

given the age, i would pull out all of the plugs. Turn the engine over clockwise a few times by hand. Then get some oi/wd40 down the bores (down a piece of spare fuel line), just to lube it up a bit. Not loads a couple of teaspoons each

With the cdi disabled (pull the connector on the cdi unit), turn the engine over on the starter, and see if the oil pressure light goes out. If it does plugs back in, leads on (1-6-2-4-3-5)

If the oil pressure goes out you have spark, you have fuel, your fan belt is connected, and you have no major oil of fuel leaks, then start her up!

Sure you could drain the oil first, check for any broken bits in the sum, pull the covers on the cams and look for rust, but ive never bothered. Slightly lazy perhaps. Ive had engines that havent run in 25+ years running.

Once its run for a bit do an oil change (plus filter), adjust valves, check compression, and observe oil pressure/engine smoke/noise, if all good. You have a good engine.

Then worry about the fuel injection

[Matthew Barnes]

Great project.
The SC is one of the most underrated 911s.
I'm based in JHB with an SC and a '67 912 in resto (on here as 'a sort of barn find')
I have a garage filled with impact bumper parts, including a tank from a 3.2 Carrera if you need it.
I've done a lot of refurb work on my SC over the last 5 years so if you need any insight into how not to do thing give me a shout parkview911atgmaildotcom.
Good luck with the refurb.
Look forward to following the journey.
Matthew

[wakeupct]

Thanks for the advice guys.
Strictly, to get this car running, all I need to do is put the fuel system back together. That's what the seller told me.

The fuel distributor, air mixer and injectors are all off the car. The fuel tank is also out and by the looks of it, needs replacing.
So out came the credit card. I bought a Dansk reproduction fuel tank. It was a bargain at $320. Its supposedly aluminized, so it should resist corrosion. It comes black, so I am going to paint it to look more original. I read all about using Wurth's Stone Guard and saw an equal number of posts from people who had problems with it drying. So instead I decided to go with Duplicolor's Truck Bed liner in rattle cans. Over top I will be using a beige with a flat finish. I was hoping to do it this weekend, but it was too cold. the can says min 68 degrees.

Here are pictures of the old and the new tanks. There was a little shipping damage to the new tank. The fill tube was poking out of the box on arrival. Not a lot of deformation so I can bend it back.






So while I wait for the temps to rise, I went back to the engine side to see if I can remove the injector sleeves and o rings that are still in the intake runners. Upon further review and thanks to some advice from Pelican Parts forums, I decided to remove the runners, and therefore the entire intake before replacing the injectors. I think it is too risky that FOD will get in the intake and ruin the valves, cylinders or both.
There are just 12 nuts to be removed to take the runners off the heads. From what I read, the hardest one is the forward, right side nut. Runner #6. So that's where I started. You can't see the nut so I reached back there to feel it. Yeah, it was there and I could just touch it with my index finger. There seemed to be enough space back there, so I loaded a deep 12mm socket on my 1/4 inch ratchet. It took a minute to get it in there and on the nut firmly. Now I started to apply pressure. This was the hard part because I could only push on the handle with just one finger. Well after gritting my teeth I was able to loosen it! It took 5 minutes to loosen because of my crappy ratchet and limited space, but I got the nut out. I then proceeded to the remaining nuts. The aft right runner, forward nut required a closed end wrench and fingertip manipulation, but it also is loose.
There are a few more nuts that I didn't have the appropriate wobble extension. I picked them up tonight and expect the remaining ones to come out with little effort.

I took some video of the CIS removal and will get it uploaded and linked here when I have a moment.

Below are a couple of pictures of the runners and whatever fuel system components are wedged between them. You can see the injector holes, most still with the o-rings in place.




So next step is to take the runners off. I hope this goes smoothly. With the CIS system off, I am expecting to be able to clean the top of the engine (and compartment) up pretty well. So "while I'm here" I expect to also address all the potential oil leak sites that I can get to now. Oil breather? the oil sensor and whatever leak prone items will be dealt with. I'm pretty sure something up front IS leaking because I can see more oil grime there then on the aft portion of the engine.



So that's it for now. Time to go order some more parts!

[wakeupct]

Sorry for the upside down images!

When I posted in my blog they came out right side up. Projekt 911SC

[boyt911sc]

Wakeupct,

Looking at the pictures of the engine tell me that the car has been neglected and would take a lot of effort to get it running. If I were in your shoes, I would drop the engine and do all the maintenance work while the motor is out. However, if you decide to do all the maintenance work with the engine installed, try to get the air box out and pressure test it. Why? Because you don't know for a fact that the air box is good or not.

According to the PO (previous owner) the FD (fuel distributor) was rebuilt and supposedly in good working condition. When was that rebuilt? Anyway, it would take me a few minutes to test a WUR and FD on my CIS bench tester. I could do it for FREE. Knowing that the WUR and FD are good would give you a better chance and less headache for your next start up. Give it a thought.

Tony

[wakeupct]

Tony,

Thanks for the advice and offer. I really just intended to put the few bits back on so I could shake down the engine and rest of the car. Taking off the CIS system is only so I don't get debris down the runners when replacing the injectors. Now that its coming off, I figure I can get to a few of the oil leaks before putting CIS back on.
The airbox looks in good condition and I will get a better look at it when I take it off. It has been upgraded with a blowoff valve so that's a good sign.
If it runs, then I will be able to see whats up with the transmission and suspension. My plan is to pull the engine/tranny next winter and do a partial or full rebuild. I'd like to put the 964 cams and SSI heat exchangers as upgrades.

I would like to take you up on your offer to test the FD and wur. Could I send it with return postage? I'll PM you for the details.

Thanks again!

Pete

[strictly]

sounds like a plan, when your done with the fuel injection (i see you had no choice), then follow my post above before trying to fire it up, that may be off use.

Dont worry too much about the oil leaks at this stage. Just get it running, c what you have, and work through it then. Chances are you'll pull the engine and box out at some stage in the future, and can get it real clean and fix all of the leaks then

[wakeupct]

Update. I was able to remove the fuel injection system yesterday. I took out all 12 nuts holding the intake runners down. Then removed all electrical, vacuum and fuel lines from the back and sides of the air box and throttle body. To remove the unit, I took off the runners on the left side and the #4 runner on the right. 5 and 6 have there screws facing forward and could not be removed with the unit in place. I removed the forward bracket. The last hurdle was lifting the airbox out with one of the oil returns still attached to the box as it looped under the big oil breather line. I got it free with a small amount of "persuasion".
With the CIS out, I was able to see the top of the engine. Lots of dirt and lots of oily grime on and around the oil breather. So since its grimy, does this mean it leaks? Should I go ahead and replace the line or just tighten up the clamp? Is there something I can do to keep the clamp tight? Locktite?
I had some nice rubber plugs for the intakes, so I plugged them and was able to clean up the top of the engine and surround. See the before/after pictures.
So I did manage to damage the cold start valve air line nipple. Fortunately the host sells them and they are cheap. I think that happened when I moved the box around without taking out the forward bracket.
The other issue I noticed was the cold start fuel line is damaged and needs to be replaced. I fear it will leak. Any advice where to get one or how I can fix the damaged one?
Next I'll take the oil breather plate off the top, clean it and replace the gasket. The airbox is cleaned up and I'll replace the o-rings for the throttle body and distributor and the air meter gasket. Btw, the box looks in good condition with no cracks.
I would like to clean the intake runners. I removed most of the grime with carb cleaner but I want to remove all stains. Any suggestions?
Also, to stake or not to stake new injector sleeves?
Finally, the intake hoses that attach the runners to the air of feel quite spongy so I was going to replace them. Spongy is bad, right?
Anything else I should do "while I'm here"?

Thanks, Pete

[gazzerr]

Hey Pete,

I recently did this job. I had my local P guy put my runners in his cold parts washer and they came out great. There is usually a little bit of carbon buildup in the runners. I was able to brush and rinse this out after the runners came out of the washer. It just flakes off. If you want to go really nuts I've seen them cleaned to perfection but I'm not too sure how this was accomplished. Perhaps an ultrasonic cleaner but I've read you need to be careful putting aluminum in one of those.

I didn't grind the stakes. I really didn't like the idea of doing that. I just lubed up the phenolic seats with some vaseline and pushed them in taking care not to tear the o-ring and then tapped them in the rest of the way past the stakes with a long skinny socket with a wide head and skinny body that fit inside the seat so I wasn't beating on the top edge of the seat. It's a tight fit. A little bit of material got scratched off the top of the seat as I tapped them into place but they don't leak so I think that's fine.

I replaced the throttle bracket bushings with the brass ones from our host. The throttle does seem a bit smoother. Check the bushings. Yours might be rotten.

I replaced all the breather hoses as mine were spongy and had superficial cracks in them. Take care to save the restrictor that's in one of the hoses that joins up with the oil tank.

I did the "triangle of death" breather gaskets and the oil pressure sender idiot light switch. You have to be really careful to get the right torque here. They are quite lightly torqued. Too little and it will leak like crazy. Too much and you can damage the case so take it easy. Also on the oil pressure switch put a bead of JB weld around the top of the switch where the metal crimp meets the plastic. The guys on here taught me that to stop leaks.

I also replaced the rubber mounts on the rear left and right mounting points for the airbox. Mine were sagged to the point of the CIS was actually sitting low and parts were abraiding on the rear of the engine case.

Oh and BoxsterGT on here is your fuel line go to man.

The only real screw up I made putting the whole thing together was that I managed to put a crack in my shroud. I had all the runners tightened up to the rubber pipes on the intake ports on my airbox and as I tightened up the runner ends at the intake ports they couldn't adjust and the whole thing got clamped down on the shroud and put a small crack in it. If you can leave the runners you can get to loose so they can adjust themselves as you tighten the runners down. You just have to watch carefully that nothing is getting crushed as you tighten everything up.

Good Luck.

[Bill Jennings]

Hi Pete,
Seeing as you gotten that far in removing the CIS I would also remove the cowling so you can inspect/clean the fins below it. I did this when I had my motor out and I was glad I did. Its amazing how much crud can be under there and how that would prevent proper cooling of the motor.
Cheers
Bill

[wakeupct]

I'm trying to source the one Polyamide fuel line that is cracked. Part number 930-110-570-00. Its $130 from our host. I was hoping I could repair it myself. Any tips, or do I suck it up and order it.

Pete

[wakeupct]

It was finally nice and warm enough today to paint the fuel tank. Instead of going the Wurth Stone Guard method, I thought I would try a truck bed liner and then paint the tank a flat beige to match original tank. I read several threads where people did not have a good experience with Stone Guard and plenty of others who had great success.
I went with Duplicolor's rattle can bed liner. I needed two cans. It was about 70 degrees when I sprayed the tank. I think the results came out quite good. The only issue was that I may have held the can a bit too far from the tank in the region of the spare tire recess. Doing so left the finish a bit rougher than elsewhere. Other than that I was pleased with the results.





Next came the topcoat. Here I used a flat beige from Lowes. It took three cans to cover the black bedliner finish. Here is the finished product. It'll look great under the carpet under the hood!
I hope the bed liner finish will remain tough on the bottom of the tank.



Pete