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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuehl View Post
The film documentary

GasLand

by Josh Fox is a decent intro.
Sobering morning vid. Would like to piss on NGas producers but... can't count myself a Snow White. Time to rethink my chem-consciousness. Appreciate the wakeup call.

(Irony is budget given to Homeland Security when the threat is our own government turning a blind eye to "internal terrorists." Where tf are we headed?!?!)
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Current: '80 Silver Targa w /'85 3.2
Prior: '77 Copper 924. '73 Black 914. '74 White Carrera. '79 Silver 930. '79 Black 930. '79 Anthracite 930.
Old 09-03-2016, 04:23 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #201 (permalink)
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In terms of metal protection, moisture and salts tend to be the culprits.
So, if you are looking for a 'coating' or 'treatment', compare what ever you are looking at in terms of the Acid salt fog protection, minimum cycles to unacceptable corrosion tables TYPE and CLASS. For corrosion resistance the range in tests can be anywhere from 8 hours to 1,000's of hours. Spray on coatings, such as "lubricants or penetrants", tend to be in the lower range. You might find a simple process for aluminum, such as anodizing (if you condenser is all aluminum construction) with a thickness of 20-25 um is sufficient.

A condenser goes through a range of contraction and expansion. In colder climates, say winter, the condenser will see temperatures down to 10F (for those real driving enthusiasts). Summer in the mid to high 100's. Hence, what ever 'coating' you are using needs to be able to withstand the stress or movement.
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Last edited by kuehl; 09-06-2016 at 06:14 AM..
Old 09-03-2016, 04:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #202 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discseven View Post

Just looked at CorrosionX. Seems excellent stuff to treat a number of P-car components. Ordered. TY Rono / TOPchemdog.

Way I read it, CorrosionX does NOT dry---it exists as a wet film. Is this correct?

Karlicious, as mentioned previously, it sure is fun spending your money for you!

Yes, CorrosionX does not really dry out. It's difficult for me to describe it perfectly, but in the bottle, it is kind of like a thinish syrup (thicker than water and thinner than engine oil) - a little goes a long way when applying it - and what it is applied to stays "wet", but not in the sense that something slathered in oil stays wet - more like a very thin film that seems like it never dries.

I often use an ultrasonic parts washer to clean ancient, steel fasteners (lots of them) - the cleaning process tends to strip the original coatings off (such as zinc plating, etc.), so I store the cleaned fasteners in a plastic container, hosed down with CorrosionX until they are needed, and when put into service at a later date, look really good and stay corrosion free indefinitely. It's really neat stuff.

Regardless of how you apply it (brush, spray, etc), you can blot off the component with a rag/paper towel if it is too wet appearing, and the corrosion protection doesn't seem to suffer.
Old 09-03-2016, 09:45 AM
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^^^ Thanks for input Rono. No worries on spendomatic-U---you know your chit. Storing bolts = excellent idea. Seems a good ap for electrical connections, i.e. fuse panel. Being wet, would consider it a "covered area" protectant... Still, gotta test it on engine cooling fan. No "simple" coating I've tried so far has managed to preserve a luster on the fan's metal.

PS... no progress last few days. "Family" matters sometimes blow my doors off. Last week or so that's been the case. Am back in AC saddle Friday.
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Current: '80 Silver Targa w /'85 3.2
Prior: '77 Copper 924. '73 Black 914. '74 White Carrera. '79 Silver 930. '79 Black 930. '79 Anthracite 930.
Old 09-07-2016, 01:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #204 (permalink)
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^^^

Karl, I meant to include "electrical connections" in my post above - I've recently been putting a dab of the "x" on all connections that are on "outdoor equipment" (such as a 1950's farm tractor I've been resto-modding) - seems to work great for that.

And since you like buying fancy chemicals, like I do, this is what I've been using lately on 09MPG's relay socket pins, wiring harness main connectors, etc. This is a very small quantity, but will probably last me many years (a little goes a long way). I squeeze a little out on a flat surface and then put it where I want it with a tiny screwdriver (sounds kinky, I know!!!). It's essentially silicone grease loaded with silver powder - pretty cool stuff.

https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-8463-7G-Conductive-Syringe/dp/B005T8QLYM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473284193&sr=8-1&keywords=silver+conductive+grease
Old 09-07-2016, 01:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #205 (permalink)
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Don't know what you up against Disc,

New Aluminum Shroud, Original Fan.
Both:
1) Cleaned chemically
2) 3 light coats of common silver auto body paint.
3) 2 light coats of top clear coat.
Could have sanded out the minor imperfections on the fan before painting
but wanted to get the car on the road.

2 months, 959 late summer miles later.
Dirt wipes right off.
No signs of cracking, peeling or blistering.
Be interesting to see how it holds up through the winter.

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Old 09-07-2016, 03:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #206 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
Karl, so you are not planning to re-paint the condenser core(s) - just leaving them bare? I've never done that with aluminum treated with only Alodine, so don't know how well it lasts long term with no additional coatings. For aluminum, magnesium and steel aircraft components that are left "raw", they get coated with CorrosionX.

Corrosion Technologies

That stuff works amazingly well for keeping all metals looking good (even raw steel) even in outdoor environments. Typically, I put some in a container and apply it with a small paint brush. Not saying I would do that with a condenser, as I would paint those, but maybe worth considering if you plan to leave them raw.
Ronnie,
Here https://www.shootersforum.com/gun-cleaning/91566-results-gun-care-product-evaluation.html is an incredible piece of work by a guy on a gun forum who did an unbeliveable head to head test on virtually ever kind of corrosion preventative available (33 products). He included CorrosionX in his tests. Scroll down thru and you will be surprised at the results!
Grant
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Old 09-07-2016, 07:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #207 (permalink)
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Here's some pics of the guys corrosion tests:

https://www.shootersforum.com/gun-cleaning/91566-results-gun-care-product-evaluation.html

Board with salt water test:



He also did tests outdoors with water mist/rain. Here's that test:
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'80SC Widebody 3.6 transplant Anthracite "The Rocket"
Long gone but still miss them all:
'77 911 Targa, '72 BMW 3.0CS Coupe(finest car I ever had!)
'71 911T Coupe White, '70 911T Coupe Blue
'68 911 Coupe Orange, '68 911L Soft Window Targa
Old 09-07-2016, 07:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #208 (permalink)
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Grant, very interesting reading! Many (most?) of those chemicals I have never even heard of (including WD40 Specialist), and quite a few worked better than Corrosion X for long term corrosion prevention. Amazing that people actually do extensive tests like that!
Old 09-07-2016, 07:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #209 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
Grant, very interesting reading! Many (most?) of those chemicals I have never even heard of (including WD40 Specialist), and quite a few worked better than Corrosion X for long term corrosion prevention. Amazing that people actually do extensive tests like that!
Wd40 has a whole new Specialist line including WD40 Rust Release Penetrant which is real good, but the one he tested that came out tops is WD40 Specialist Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor
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'80SC Widebody 3.6 transplant Anthracite "The Rocket"
Long gone but still miss them all:
'77 911 Targa, '72 BMW 3.0CS Coupe(finest car I ever had!)
'71 911T Coupe White, '70 911T Coupe Blue
'68 911 Coupe Orange, '68 911L Soft Window Targa
Old 09-07-2016, 08:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #210 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuehl View Post

A condenser goes through a range of contraction and expansion. In colder climates, say winter, the condenser will see temperatures down to 10F (for those real driving enthusiasts). Summer in the mid to high 100's. Hence, what ever 'coating' you are using needs to be able to withstand the stress or movement.
Griff, I have driven my 911 in temps of -1 and ZERO degrees F. It is the only time I have ever run with the heater at max for more than a few minutes. There was no ice or snow, just unusual cold for Oklahoma.

I drove through Needles, CA and it was1 114 air temp. I bet the road was 130 degrees or more. The AC system had hit the limit but I did NOT get sweaty. I could not hold my hand on the dash when it was that hot.

I just wonder hot the condenser was during that heat. I sure was not going to get out and test measure it.
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Old 09-08-2016, 04:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #211 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
^^^

Karl, I meant to include "electrical connections" in my post above - I've recently been putting a dab of the "x" on all connections that are on "outdoor equipment" (such as a 1950's farm tractor I've been resto-modding) - seems to work great for that.

And since you like buying fancy chemicals, like I do, this is what I've been using lately on 09MPG's relay socket pins, wiring harness main connectors, etc. This is a very small quantity, but will probably last me many years (a little goes a long way). I squeeze a little out on a flat surface and then put it where I want it with a tiny screwdriver (sounds kinky, I know!!!). It's essentially silicone grease loaded with silver powder - pretty cool stuff.

https://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-8463-7G-Conductive-Syringe/dp/B005T8QLYM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473284193&sr=8-1&keywords=silver+conductive+grease
Silver conductive grease... impressive Rono. Gona get that TOO. You're on a roll Bro... what other tricks U got?!?!
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Current: '80 Silver Targa w /'85 3.2
Prior: '77 Copper 924. '73 Black 914. '74 White Carrera. '79 Silver 930. '79 Black 930. '79 Anthracite 930.
Old 09-08-2016, 04:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #212 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuehl View Post
Don't know what you up against Disc,

New Aluminum Shroud, Original Fan.
Both:
1) Cleaned chemically
2) 3 light coats of common silver auto body paint.
3) 2 light coats of top clear coat.
Could have sanded out the minor imperfections on the fan before painting
but wanted to get the car on the road.

2 months, 959 late summer miles later.
Dirt wipes right off.
No signs of cracking, peeling or blistering.
Be interesting to see how it holds up through the winter.

Always interested in metal preservation. Painting is an excellent way to go but am attempting to find a preservative that allows raw metal to show through---appreciate this being a challenge. Personal preference is satin finish. Bling put on this OEM fan was to test different top coats.






Same polished fan as above after 18 months of untouched operation. Looked the same as this after about 5 months. None of the tested top coatings worked.




Also tested aerosol clear coats. This is VHT. Looked like a winner initially... then went milky. Other aerosol products peeled. CG - What clear coat did you use?

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Current: '80 Silver Targa w /'85 3.2
Prior: '77 Copper 924. '73 Black 914. '74 White Carrera. '79 Silver 930. '79 Black 930. '79 Anthracite 930.

Last edited by Discseven; 09-08-2016 at 03:35 PM.. Reason: I can spelll
Old 09-08-2016, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uwanna View Post
Great reference Grant!
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Prior: '77 Copper 924. '73 Black 914. '74 White Carrera. '79 Silver 930. '79 Black 930. '79 Anthracite 930.
Old 09-08-2016, 10:10 AM
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FLUSH RECORD

12 hours total was given to flushing hardware on closed loop... more than half of that given to fender serpentine.
Flush:
Rear lid condenser – T&F / Tube & Fin
Fender condenser - Serpentine
Front condenser – T&F
Evaporator - Serpentine


Rear Lid Condenser:

Sequence: 1 can > air blast > Formula 88 pumped in closed, filtered loop (tap on unit with rubber mallet on occasion, back & forward flush) > water rinse > pure alcohol rinse > air blast > sun dry > cap off.

Clean filter: 1 time
Total time on loop = 2.5 hrs.


Discharge from 1 aerosol can.






Started loop filtering with linen. Catches very fine debris but does not drain quickly enough. (GPH circulation depends on pump head pressure and restriction of unit. Each unit had different flow rates, none of which were near pump's 650 gph.)




Switch to terrycloth.




Mostly flake. Very little fines.





Fender Condenser - Narrow Serpentine

Sequence: Fill unit (laid in horizontal position) with Acetone and let soak 2 days > air blast out Acetone > put on closed, filtered 88 loop (tap on unit with rubber mallet on occasion, back & forward flush) - MISTAKE – should have can flushed unit before putting on loop to preserve loop fluid. MISTAKE – turned pump off and left unit loaded with static 88 for 1 day. Returned next day and ports are oxidized… must assume internals are oxidized too > fill with acid (laid in horizontal postion) > let acid soak 2 minutes > water rinse > baking soda and water solution rinse > water rinse > change 88 fluid to new > put on closed, filtered 88 loop (tap on unit with rubber mallet on occasion) > water rinse > pure alcohol rinse > air blast > very low oven temp bake dry > confirm unit being clean with 1 can flush > air blast > very low oven temp bake dry > cap off >

Clean filter: 5 times
Total flush time = 7 hrs.

FAN: check motor > working > lube shaft WD40 > clean ground > replace zip locks > install aluminum bottom air baffle.


Acetone discharge = mostly oily residue and fines. Small compressor o-ring piece.






Putting unit on loop flush immediately after blowing out Acetone = mistake---quickly clogs filter with fines.




Fines continue to discharge after hours of loop. Clean filter multiple times during process.



Later on...

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Current: '80 Silver Targa w /'85 3.2
Prior: '77 Copper 924. '73 Black 914. '74 White Carrera. '79 Silver 930. '79 Black 930. '79 Anthracite 930.
Old 09-08-2016, 11:15 AM
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Front condenser


Sequence: Unit remains in car… front end jacked up > sharpen can’s rubber nozzle (ports are very small) > inject 1/2 can > let soak 5 min. > finish 1st can > inject ½ can > let soak 5 min. > finish 2nd can > inject 1/2 can > let soak 5 min. > finish 3rd can > inject 1/2 can > let soak 5 min. > finish 4th can > air blast > cap off.

Total 17 oz cans used = 4


1st can.




2nd can.




3rd and 4th cans progressively less debris discharged.




Evaporator – Wide Serpentine

Sequence: 1 can back-flush* > air blast > Formula 88 pumped in closed, filtered loop (tap on unit with rubber mallet on occasion, back & forward flush) > water rinse > pure alcohol rinse > air blast > low temp oven dry > cap off.

Clean filter: 0 times
Total flush time = 2 hrs.

* Way I did this it was not possible to get a clear look at discharge.


Flow rate is distinctively more than condenser serpentine.






Fluids Used:
6 Aerosol cans X 17 oz = 102 ozs.
4 ¼ gallons Formula 88 (filtered, closed loop, 11 foot head pressure pump / 650 gph capacity*)
1 qt unknown acid (AC retailer would not say what it is)
2 gallons baking soda & water solution
1 gallon pure alcohol
Water for rinse

* 650 gph never reached due to hardware flow restrictions.


Can flush. Advance Auto. $15.




88. Supermarket… $4 per gallon.

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Prior: '77 Copper 924. '73 Black 914. '74 White Carrera. '79 Silver 930. '79 Black 930. '79 Anthracite 930.
Old 09-08-2016, 11:25 AM
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Hazmat cleanup



EDIT: This fluid is experimental.
It was used to test how well it would preserve raw aluminum.
It has nothing to do with flushing system parts.


Alodine 1001 disposal cost:

Fed regulated disposal = $98 per final 5 gallon container
2 containers + $18 fee = $214.

Cost basis = 1.5 qt initial solution comprised of 50% Alodine, 50% water… further diluted with 9 gallons rinse water.
Total fluid to be managed = 9-10 gallons
Final containers = 2 x 5 gallon plastic fuel tanks

NOTE: PH of final solution can render a diluted hazardous solution "non-hazardous." Due to chromium in this case, PH of final solution is not taken into account.

Chem Klean Corp.
Pressure Cleaning and Waste Water Services Miami FL

To treat a condenser... cost for chem, shipping and regulated clean up is not worth it. But, was thinking beyond condenser to other parts. Idea here being to use condenser as a test bed for this chem's metal preservation. Newly taken into consideration is CG's toxic vid reference. Compels me to refrain from being a consumer of such hazmat chems.
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Prior: '77 Copper 924. '73 Black 914. '74 White Carrera. '79 Silver 930. '79 Black 930. '79 Anthracite 930.

Last edited by Discseven; 09-08-2016 at 01:56 PM..
Old 09-08-2016, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discseven View Post


Alodine 1001 disposal cost:

Fed regulated disposal = $98 per final 5 gallon container
2 containers + $18 fee = $214.

Cost basis = 1.5 qt initial solution comprised of 50% Alodine, 50% water… further diluted with 9 gallons rinse water.
Total fluid to be managed = 9-10 gallons
Final containers = 2 x 5 gallon plastic fuel tanks

NOTE: PH of final solution can render a diluted hazardous solution "non-hazardous." Due to chromium in this case, PH of final solution is not taken into account.

Chem Klean Corp.
Pressure Cleaning and Waste Water Services Miami FL

To treat a condenser... cost for chem, shipping and regulated clean up is not worth it. But, was thinking beyond condenser to other parts. Idea here being to use condenser as a test bed for this chem's metal preservation. Newly taken into consideration is CG's toxic vid reference. Compels me to refrain from being a consumer of such hazmat chems.
Wow, so a lot of work, hazardous chemical exposure and the expense of buying and disposal of the bad pookie chemicals and in the end you have a mostly clean condenser. What does a straight up replacement condenser cost?

I am hopeful I will never have that black death issue, but I think I would just replace everything and start over. $$$$
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1986 El Camino with Fuel Injected 350 Crate Engine
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Old 09-08-2016, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by GH85Carrera View Post
Wow, so a lot of work, hazardous chemical exposure and the expense of buying and disposal of the bad pookie chemicals and in the end you have a mostly clean condenser. What does a straight up replacement condenser cost?

I am hopeful I will never have that black death issue, but I think I would just replace everything and start over. $$$$
Glen... you may be thinking the "1001" was used for flushing. It's not---It's for an external metal preservation test (completely unrelated to cleaning and making AC system work.) Point is to see how this chem works to preserve raw aluminum. In this case the exterior of the rear lid condenser---it was acid cleaned, rinsed, then treated with the 1001. Am also testing same pookie on OEM fan.

Buying all new AC hardware = major time saver. Would also eliminate the risk of any part remaining contaminated. My guesstimate to replace 2 tube & fin and 1 serpentine condenser, and 1 serpentine evap... $1600-1700.

My interest is not speed, saving time or aggravation. It's taking the journey to see if & how Porsche stuff can be nicely salvaged / preserved. Testing new materials & processes along the way is part of this empirical learning path. Striving for a certain level of quality is also part of the challenge. In this particular case, nothing above 33 degrees at the vent will be called gratification! To kick some Ronoazz... system has to put out 27.5 degrees... at f'in idle. Will admit to some trepidation concerning that target---but it's fine challenge to mess with RawknucklesTurbot over.
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Last edited by Discseven; 09-08-2016 at 01:58 PM..
Old 09-08-2016, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discseven View Post
To kick some Ronoazz...
It doesn't hurt to dream, bub!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discseven View Post
system has to put out 27.5 degrees... at f'in idle. Will admit to some trepidation concerning that target---but it's fine challenge to mess with RawknucklesTurbot over.
And whilst it is 95F+ outside, double bub!!! Getcha suuummmm!!!
Old 09-08-2016, 09:16 PM
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