Bigger "SSI" system

[Roger 911]

Originally Posted by Coloradocurt I got a price quote from the US distributor of $2544 delivered, but I also told them that I'd be all over this if the thicker flanges were fitted. Yikes, considering that these might give you 5-10 hp (depending on mods). I guess I'm too cheap. They look nice though. Roger

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by stephen1070

Hi Tony, I called the US distributor and discussed fitting these to a 3.2. I encouraged them to produce formal instructions for fitting to a 3.2 and address the welding around heat boxes.

It's great that you called them and showed interest, but nothing needs to be addressed with the welding. See below pic gaps in the shrouding to primary interface are typical, including on SSI's (although they fit a little better than typical factory ones.

[Maxhouse97]

That seems really high for 1900 euros, which as already stated includes VAT which should be refunded to you if you take them out of the country. I'd just as well buy them on a business trip and have them shipped back. Even with customs it should be much less.

[Falk930]

I talked to the owner Mr.Eisenmann this morning.
He takes care for this system by himself.
Some good news:
1: They are already planing the 3.2 setup, the sample car is there next week.
2: We discussed a 3.6 conversion setup too.

Honestly I was impressed about his detailed 911 acknowledgement.

In case you have some "things to not forget" or "nice to have"
for the 3.2 or 3.6 conversion system, please let me know.
I will continue the discussions with him.

FYI, Thick flanges are already planed.
Further, the 3.6 conversion might need the 964 heater tube.

We discussed rotated Flanges for the 3.6 system.
On my 1994 crate engine, the heads have 4 bolts, but he told me
later 993 engines need rotated flanges for sure.

Falk

[kuehl]

Yesterday I just tossed on a pair of JP-Group/Dansk on my 3.2>3.5 because I needed heat.
The PN is 91.917SSI. I'll tell you, the quality of the build, seams and welds is excellent.
All 6 flanges aligned up perfectly with the exhaust studs, slipped on perfectly.
I've been through 3 different aftermarket header/heater box brands and they all had issues. Yes, the Dansk is not a larger diameter pipe however I'm not concerned about that for winter driving. As far as changing oil tubes, did not have too. Just followed the instructions another forum member used to light bend the return pipe and mold/hammer the LH heat box for clearance, frankly it came out quite good and I don't have to get involved with headaches swapping lines at the external thermostat. The JP Group advertises the material as follows:

CONSTRUCTED ENTIRELY OF AISI 304/321
STAINLESS STEEL
STATE OF THE ART HEADER DESIGN
All six primary tubes are equal in centerline lenght to
7.9 mm absolute, vs original equipment variances of
95.3 mm. All tubing is three ball mandrel bent to
aircraft tolerences on computer controlled tube
benders to assure consistent tube inside diameters.
Gas flow rates exceed O.E. by 9.8% and are balanced
within 1.7%. All turbulence inducing compound bends
have been eliminated from the design.
ONE PIECE HEADER PRIMARY TUBES
Primary header tubes contained in the heat exchanger
ducting are made of one piece Eddy current tested AISI
304 stainless steel tubing. There are no internal weld
joints made during fabrication.

You can read their hype HERE
I'm not going to address which stainless is better than the other or what the ideal thickness needs to be, I just wanted bolt-on-heat without drama.

Yeah, there are spelling errors, hey, who's perfect in translation.
Anyway, the 'value' was good in terms of what you get compared to other 2 major players. Again, these are not big bore pipes.

With regard to Magnu's (SAFE) post, I'd be interested when these large bores hit the market. For the list price of $2100+ that is a steal compared to what's out there (less comments about equal length, etc.; let the dyno test provide the facts).

[Maxhouse97]

Falk - did he mention timing on the 3.2 application? The only request I would have beyond mirroring the SSI long tube header philosophy and look (which they seem to have done) is back to back dyno results.

[Coloradocurt]

And updates or new developments???

[Falk930]

Originally Posted by Coloradocurt

And updates or new developments???

They have the 3.2 in there starting on monday.

Falk

[kuehl]

Originally Posted by Falk930

In case you have some "things to not forget" or "nice to have"
for the 3.2 or 3.6 conversion system, please let me know.
I will continue the discussions with him.

Falk

If this is Christmas for 3.2+ , well then....

1) 02 Bong on LH, and an option for 6 02 bungs for tuners.
2) Mod the LH side so you don't have to back date the
oil return line (that's an easy $200 savings in oil line parts and you don't have to touch the line to the thermostat); this would make their product a win-win. Naturally they would not understand this unless they tried to put a set on a 3.2 themselves.

[White911SC]

Originally Posted by sp_cs

One more pic:

In the picture of the Eisenmann tubes under construction it can be seen a couple tubes contain welds that would be inside the heat exchangers. Based on the quote below taken from the JP "SSI" brochure regarding one piece primary tubes, should internal weld integrity on the Eisenmann version be a safety concern over the long term?

The JP "SSI" brochure states:

"CARBON MONOXIDE SAFE
Unlike all other aftermarket heat exchangers, the SSI
heat exchanger headers are made to minimize the
possibility that engine produced acids will internally
corrode the enclosed primary tubes, thereby allowing
carbon monoxide to enter the passenger compartment.
The AISI 304 stainless steel tubing is highly resistant to
the byproducts of combustion. We use only one piece
primary tubes, eliminating the possibility of hand-made
welds cracking, and the resulting carbon monoxide
leaks."

[kuehl]

Good point whitey. Looks like one of the 90 degree bends required a mod the bender could not handle. But, put one of these in the cockpit and keep a few Tylenol nearby and you got it licked.

Old School




and New School (cig adapter USB CO detector)

[Maxhouse97]

Thanks guys please keep us updated - I have a feeling this is gong to be good.

[Trackrash]

I wana see pictures.

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

I wana see pictures.

https://eisenmannblog.com/

[Lyle O]

Originally Posted by Falk930

They have the 3.2 in there starting on monday.

Falk

Maybe I am dense, but I could not find the 42mm O.D. SSI with thick flange for 3.2 motors on their web site. Do they have them now? I just find the thin-flange version (under F-body high output engine application). TIA.

Lyle.

[kuehl]

My summer pipes (without heat exchangers) 1.75" nominal OD (44.5 mm).
They have thin flanges and I never had an issue mounting on the 3.2 stock
head studs.

[Walt Fricke]

If you use 12mm wrench flange nuts instead of the barrels, life is easier and you can use thick flange studs on thin flange headers just fine.

[gliding_serpent]

Subscribed... my 1.5 id with exchanger solution was unsatisfying...

[Lyle O]

I sent Eisenmann a note asking about this for larger engines. Here is the reply they sent me:

"The Eisenmann heat exchanger with 42 mm tubes is only designed to fit the F-Model 2,0l - 2,4l engines. We do not offer a heat exchanger fitting 3,2l/3,6l conversion at the moment. If there will be one in the future is depending on request. We will drop you an e-mail if we decide to develop a heat exchanger for 3,2l/3,6l conversion. Sven."

I don't know much about the earlier cars, but shouldn't this unit work on the 3.2, except for using wrench flange nuts (as Walt explains above)? Wouldn't the only difference be in the flange thickness? Is the stud spacing the same in the 2.0 / 2.4L engines? I sent Sven at Eisenmann the same questions, and I will let you all know what they say.

Falk, have you had any further contact with them?

Thanks.

Lyle.

[safe]

Originally Posted by Lyle O

I don't know much about the earlier cars, but shouldn't this unit work on the 3.2, except for using wrench flange nuts (as Walt explains above)? Wouldn't the only difference be in the flange thickness?

Yes, they will work.
The 3.2 HE also protrudes into the head a bit, but that doesn't matter much either.