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Roger
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'72 911 3.2 '86 951 '07 Audi Q7 '12 VW CC VR6 '18 Mustang Eco PP |
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![]() Last edited by Jonny042; 09-30-2016 at 05:47 AM.. |
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Tony
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,091
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That seems really high for 1900 euros, which as already stated includes VAT which should be refunded to you if you take them out of the country. I'd just as well buy them on a business trip and have them shipped back. Even with customs it should be much less.
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Tony 87 Carrera Coupe 12 991 Carrera (sold) 07 Cayman S (sold - not soon forgotten) 93 968 (sold) |
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 401
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I talked to the owner Mr.Eisenmann this morning.
He takes care for this system by himself. Some good news: 1: They are already planing the 3.2 setup, the sample car is there next week. 2: We discussed a 3.6 conversion setup too. Honestly I was impressed about his detailed 911 acknowledgement. In case you have some "things to not forget" or "nice to have" for the 3.2 or 3.6 conversion system, please let me know. I will continue the discussions with him. FYI, Thick flanges are already planed. Further, the 3.6 conversion might need the 964 heater tube. We discussed rotated Flanges for the 3.6 system. On my 1994 crate engine, the heads have 4 bolts, but he told me later 993 engines need rotated flanges for sure. Falk
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87 930 bblk/blk 88 3.6 white/blk |
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Yesterday I just tossed on a pair of JP-Group/Dansk on my 3.2>3.5 because I needed heat.
The PN is 91.917SSI. I'll tell you, the quality of the build, seams and welds is excellent. All 6 flanges aligned up perfectly with the exhaust studs, slipped on perfectly. I've been through 3 different aftermarket header/heater box brands and they all had issues. Yes, the Dansk is not a larger diameter pipe however I'm not concerned about that for winter driving. As far as changing oil tubes, did not have too. Just followed the instructions another forum member used to light bend the return pipe and mold/hammer the LH heat box for clearance, frankly it came out quite good and I don't have to get involved with headaches swapping lines at the external thermostat. The JP Group advertises the material as follows: CONSTRUCTED ENTIRELY OF AISI 304/321 STAINLESS STEEL STATE OF THE ART HEADER DESIGN All six primary tubes are equal in centerline lenght to 7.9 mm absolute, vs original equipment variances of 95.3 mm. All tubing is three ball mandrel bent to aircraft tolerences on computer controlled tube benders to assure consistent tube inside diameters. Gas flow rates exceed O.E. by 9.8% and are balanced within 1.7%. All turbulence inducing compound bends have been eliminated from the design. ONE PIECE HEADER PRIMARY TUBES Primary header tubes contained in the heat exchanger ducting are made of one piece Eddy current tested AISI 304 stainless steel tubing. There are no internal weld joints made during fabrication. You can read their hype HERE I'm not going to address which stainless is better than the other or what the ideal thickness needs to be, I just wanted bolt-on-heat without drama. Yeah, there are spelling errors, hey, who's perfect in translation. Anyway, the 'value' was good in terms of what you get compared to other 2 major players. Again, these are not big bore pipes. With regard to Magnu's (SAFE) post, I'd be interested when these large bores hit the market. For the list price of $2100+ that is a steal compared to what's out there (less comments about equal length, etc.; let the dyno test provide the facts).
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Kuehl 1987 911 cab, modified https://griffiths.com/ Last edited by kuehl; 10-04-2016 at 05:17 AM.. |
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Tony
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,091
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Falk - did he mention timing on the 3.2 application? The only request I would have beyond mirroring the SSI long tube header philosophy and look (which they seem to have done) is back to back dyno results.
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Tony 87 Carrera Coupe 12 991 Carrera (sold) 07 Cayman S (sold - not soon forgotten) 93 968 (sold) |
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Castle Rock, Colorado
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And updates or new developments???
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 401
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They have the 3.2 in there starting on monday.
Falk
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87 930 bblk/blk 88 3.6 white/blk |
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1) 02 Bong on LH, and an option for 6 02 bungs for tuners. 2) Mod the LH side so you don't have to back date the oil return line (that's an easy $200 savings in oil line parts and you don't have to touch the line to the thermostat); this would make their product a win-win. Naturally they would not understand this unless they tried to put a set on a 3.2 themselves.
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Kuehl 1987 911 cab, modified https://griffiths.com/ |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 41
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Carbon Monoxide Safe Welds?
In the picture of the Eisenmann tubes under construction it can be seen a couple tubes contain welds that would be inside the heat exchangers. Based on the quote below taken from the JP "SSI" brochure regarding one piece primary tubes, should internal weld integrity on the Eisenmann version be a safety concern over the long term?
The JP "SSI" brochure states: "CARBON MONOXIDE SAFE Unlike all other aftermarket heat exchangers, the SSI heat exchanger headers are made to minimize the possibility that engine produced acids will internally corrode the enclosed primary tubes, thereby allowing carbon monoxide to enter the passenger compartment. The AISI 304 stainless steel tubing is highly resistant to the byproducts of combustion. We use only one piece primary tubes, eliminating the possibility of hand-made welds cracking, and the resulting carbon monoxide leaks." |
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Good point whitey. Looks like one of the 90 degree bends required a mod the bender could not handle. But, put one of these in the cockpit and keep a few Tylenol nearby and you got it licked.
Old School ![]() and New School (cig adapter USB CO detector) ![]()
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Kuehl 1987 911 cab, modified https://griffiths.com/ |
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Tony
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,091
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Thanks guys please keep us updated - I have a feeling this is gong to be good.
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Tony 87 Carrera Coupe 12 991 Carrera (sold) 07 Cayman S (sold - not soon forgotten) 93 968 (sold) |
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Under the radar
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sebastopol, the land of wine and redwoods in The Republic of California.
Posts: 6,844
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I wana see pictures.
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Gordon ___________________________________ '71 911 Coupe 3,0L outlawed #56 PCA Redwood Region, GGR, NASA, Speed SF Trackrash's Garage :: My Garage |
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Maybe I am dense, but I could not find the 42mm O.D. SSI with thick flange for 3.2 motors on their web site. Do they have them now? I just find the thin-flange version (under F-body high output engine application). TIA. Lyle. |
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My summer pipes (without heat exchangers) 1.75" nominal OD (44.5 mm).
They have thin flanges and I never had an issue mounting on the 3.2 stock head studs.
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Kuehl 1987 911 cab, modified https://griffiths.com/ |
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Location: Boulder, Colorado
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If you use 12mm wrench flange nuts instead of the barrels, life is easier and you can use thick flange studs on thin flange headers just fine.
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Subscribed... my 1.5 id with exchanger solution was unsatisfying...
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1997 BMW M3 (race car) with S54 engine swap "The Rocket" 1984 Porsche 911 3.4 Carrera 1973 BMW 2002Tii 2016 Ford Focus RS |
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I sent Eisenmann a note asking about this for larger engines. Here is the reply they sent me:
"The Eisenmann heat exchanger with 42 mm tubes is only designed to fit the F-Model 2,0l - 2,4l engines. We do not offer a heat exchanger fitting 3,2l/3,6l conversion at the moment. If there will be one in the future is depending on request. We will drop you an e-mail if we decide to develop a heat exchanger for 3,2l/3,6l conversion. Sven." I don't know much about the earlier cars, but shouldn't this unit work on the 3.2, except for using wrench flange nuts (as Walt explains above)? Wouldn't the only difference be in the flange thickness? Is the stud spacing the same in the 2.0 / 2.4L engines? I sent Sven at Eisenmann the same questions, and I will let you all know what they say. Falk, have you had any further contact with them? Thanks. Lyle. |
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Yes, they will work. The 3.2 HE also protrudes into the head a bit, but that doesn't matter much either.
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Magnus 911 Silver Targa -77, 3.2 -84 with custom ITBs and EFI. Just works! 911T Coupe -69, 3.6, G50, "RSR", track day. Sorting out issues... 924 -79 rat roddy... 931 -79 under total restoration... |
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