Cellette bench/frame straightening shop in Atlanta?

[Geneman]

hi peeps , question for the brain trust,

does anyone know of shop with a cellette bench, and or other equipment and experience in straightening frames on 911s in the atlanta area? i had a slight shunt coming down the hill at RA. .. NOT MY FAULT OF COURSE......

but i digress...... lets not talk about fault...

its a dedicated race car..
thanks very much please post or email me: rauscher@wistar.org

frank

[tirwin]

My first thought is John Holt in Marietta.

http://holtwheelsmotorsports.com/index.html

If he can't do it he will tell you who can.

[Matt Monson]

Frank, if you are there right now go talk to Goldcrest or Chris Smith Racing. Or David Murry if he is there. They are all local race shops and can steer you right.

[bpu699]

Anyone have any insight on what a shop might charge for a "slight shunt" and to adjust on a cellete? Ball park?

$1500?

$5000?

Seems like a big to do, where the entire suspension is removed...

[Geneman]

Thanks Peeps ...... yes good suggestions,

also very good point regarding expected costs. What would be a ball park for straightening? for instance delivering the chassis already stripped as need for the pull.

of course, would be much more car delivered unstripped. Must the motor, drive train , all suspension be removed to get it on the bench? Even if the hit is just in the front?

any comments very welcome.

[Elombard]

It would be interesting to see a picture of one being pulled on a cellette with the correct hardware/locator/mounts. I think I know what that would look like and what would be involved but maybe not.

I wonder if welding on a donor clip would be easier/cheaper on a race car?

[Tom '74 911]

Originally Posted by Geneman

Must the motor, drive train , all suspension be removed to get it on the bench? Even if the hit is just in the front?

I paid a shop back in 2012 to put my '74 911 on their Celette bench to straighten it for me. They charged me about $2K (which included $1,250 for fixture rentals). I delivered the tub to them on a dolly - no engine/transmission or suspension etc... I wanted to make it as easy as possible for them & the most affordable for me. They were pretty easy to work with and understanding of where I was coming from. The only bummer was that they didn't actually fix the tub for me in the end... but that's a whole 'nutter story. : )

Cars can be mounted on Cellete benches fully assembled with suspension for measuring & determining what is tweaked. There are different jigs and fixtures to do just that. Once you start pulling it straight though, it's best to have as many anchor points as possible to lock the body down. This likely requires removal of the suspension at the very least, and ideally the motor and transmission as well.

If everything is pretty straight and you're just doing a straightforward panel replacement with no pulling involved, I'd say you could probably leave it intact. If there is much pulling involved, I'd say take it apart to get access to as many points to lock it down as possible.

Full disclosure - I now have a Celette bench & fixture set in my shop, but am not a professional. An actual repair professional might have a different opinion!

Tom

[RSTarga]

For normal body damage, only the suspension has to be removed, as that is where the fixtures attach. The fixtures are set up to align with factory dimensions and the car is pulled into tolerance.

[Geneman]

Thanks Erik, Matt, Tom all great thoughts and info.. ( BTW i searched PP for this info and there is not alot on this topic i think people might be a bit cautious abut asking.... me I KNOW I AM AN IDIOT.. and hence no problem broadcasting it....)

Yes plan B or C is a front clip..

I would definitly dissemble my self before putting on the bench..

But i am just wondering if simple measurements and an experienced inspection, prior to total dissembly could tell me if its fixable, worth fixing etc. thats the rub... if you cannot really tell that for sure without getting it on the bench ... well that solves that....

thanks again Frank

[RSTarga]

If you are going to do a front clip, you definitely need to use a bench.
There are plenty of dimensions in the workshop manual, with measuring instructions to see the extent of the damage. This is normally done with an aluminum trammel with pointers attached. You set the trammel to the specified length and match the pointers to the measuring points on the bottom of the chassis. You don't need a bench to do this, just a lift.

[Tom '74 911]

Originally Posted by Geneman

But i am just wondering if simple measurements and an experienced inspection, prior to total dissembly could tell me if its fixable, worth fixing etc. thats the rub... if you cannot really tell that for sure without getting it on the bench ... well that solves that..

Ideally, you'd plop it on a Celette and know with some certainty where you stood, but you can do some basic measuring yourself. Being diligent with your methods is important for accuracy. I'd start by measuring critical suspension points & also look at general symmetry. You can use the dimensions in the Workshop Manuals as a starting point. Keep in mind that if the car is sitting on its tires, or on jack stands or on a lift - it's likely not level... nor is the floor underneath it.

What kind of shape is the car in exactly? Is it still rolling on 4 wheels? Is it still possible to align it to spec. symmetrically?

Also, anything can be repaired. It's just a matter of time & $$. With values of air-cooled 911's as crazy as they currently are, seeing "almost every panel replaced" restorations is less and less surprising... just depends on your tolerance for pain to your wallet!

[Geneman]

thanks again tom and everyone. have some good paths moving forward. cheers frank

[onboost]

Originally Posted by Tom '74 911

I paid a shop back in 2012 to put my '74 911 on their Celette bench to straighten it for me. They charged me about $2K (which included $1,250 for fixture rentals).

Cars can be mounted on Cellete benches fully assembled with suspension for measuring & determining what is tweaked. There are different jigs and fixtures to do just that. Once you start pulling it straight though, it's best to have as many anchor points as possible to lock the body down. This likely requires removal of the suspension at the very least, and ideally the motor and transmission as well.

Full disclosure - I now have a Celette bench & fixture set in my shop, but am not a professional. An actual repair professional might have a different opinion!

Tom

Originally Posted by RSTarga

If you are going to do a front clip, you definitely need to use a bench.
There are plenty of dimensions in the workshop manual, with measuring instructions to see the extent of the damage. This is normally done with an aluminum trammel with pointers attached. You set the trammel to the specified length and match the pointers to the measuring points on the bottom of the chassis. You don't need a bench to do this, just a lift.

Originally Posted by Tom '74 911

Ideally, you'd plop it on a Celette and know with some certainty where you stood, but you can do some basic measuring yourself. Being diligent with your methods is important for accuracy. I'd start by measuring critical suspension points & also look at general symmetry.

Also, anything can be repaired. It's just a matter of time & $$. With values of air-cooled 911's as crazy as they currently are, seeing "almost every panel replaced" restorations is less and less surprising... just depends on your tolerance for pain to your wallet!

A Cellette would be exactly what you want for correct set-up and alignment. Set-up time with the bench itself can range from a couple of hours to half a day depending on the severity of the damage, so this is part of what you're paying for.

Car can be mounted numerous ways, suspension on or off either in or both, engine in or out. Again, just depends on what and where the damage is. Also, part of using the Celette is knowing how to read the diagram (puzzles) which advise as to what fixtures you want for what kind of pull.

As far as anchor points, typically you want to use the 4 fixtures that lock down the car using the pinch welds, from there, you can read the tub as you begin to set the other fixtures as they fit/align a certain way at each point... where there is misalignment or a tweek, the fixture will not seat properly, or if it will bolt-up the pins will show resistance in movement.

Not all shops have to rent their jigs.. it depends on the shop, and/or what marque they specialize in or do the most work on, how often they use the equipment. When you pay for this work, you're paying for a shop that has the right equipment and the knowledge to use it.


Then of course there's the clip at issue. Several ways to do a front clip.. question is which is right for you? And that answer is as Tom stated; "just depends on your tolerance for pain to your wallet!"

[Geneman]

reviving this thread with some new info and hopefully can get some additional advice on how to proceed

well peeps, based on some very good advice from yourselves and my top wrench, , i took the car to a well known porsche shop in texas with a cellette bench.....there it sat for 4 months...

today, i was just informed that it likely is not repairable. the shop said that the " firewall is pushed back into the cabin area " hence displaced enough to warrant it deem it unfixable.

i have not seen the car yet but will be in dallas on weds, and then get a complete understanding. i will post some pics and the complete

so is it worth it getting a second opinion?

onboost, do you have a cellette bench or know of one in DC metro area.?

who is that pcar specialist in new hampshire , (i think) that posts here and does cellette bench work?

i will likely be hauling the car back to the northeast from texas at the end of the week and need a plan and a place to take it..

anyone know of a reasonable air-cooled available tub for a dedicated race car, if i have to go that direction?

thanks again

frank rauscher@wistar.org

[Tom '74 911]

Hi Frank,

That's a bummer to hear; I feel your pain though and can relate...

Damon at Series900 is the fellow in New Hampshire that posts here and does a lot of restoration work on P-Cars. It may be worth having a conversation with him about your car to get a different perspective on the situation.

If you post some photos of the damage and of it on the shop's bench, we can all play Monday morning quarterback for you and help diagnose! (Should've put that in green font)... I might be inclined to trust the experts though...

As we talked about before, just about anything is repairable, it just depends on your wallet's pain tolerance. It may be cheaper and faster to buy another car or tub and swap your parts onto it. The trick will be to find one that's in good enough shape. Most of what I see available in the classifieds these days that is priced anywhere close to reasonable $$ are rust buckets. The best option would be to find a car that's been someone's project (preferably race car project!) that's been improved already to a high standard (which will not be an easy task as most of those seem to have questionable cage designs and other not-completely-thought-through modifications). Maybe even finding a race car without a drivetrain would be a good way to go...

What class is/was your car? And what's your ballpark budget to get back on track? Those two things will help determine the best path to take... Maybe it's a good opportunity to switch classes or start with a new platform?

Do post some photos when you get a chance.

Tom

[onboost]

Originally Posted by Geneman

reviving this thread with some new info and hopefully can get some additional advice on how to proceed

well peeps, based on some very good advice from yourselves and my top wrench, , i took the car to a well known porsche shop in texas with a cellette bench.....there it sat for 4 months...

today, i was just informed that it likely is not repairable. the shop said that the " firewall is pushed back into the cabin area " hence displaced enough to warrant it deem it unfixable.

so is it worth it getting a second opinion?

onboost, do you have a cellette bench or know of one in DC metro area.?

thanks again

frank rauscher@wistar.org

You have an email...

[pkracer21j]

Take it to Aaron and Keith at Zuffenhaus in Charlotte! They straightened out our 935 on the Cellette after a shunt in the esses at RA! Anything is fixable!

[Geneman]

thanks to everyone for really great advice. well this story gets even worse. i was trailering the car back from dallas (to philadelphia) on friday. got as far as just north of charlotte and my tow vehicle engine lets go in a big way... oil fire, everything. right on I85. so now my worthless tow vehicle (160K 2004 Navigator) and the enclosed trailer are sitting in NC at a AAA shop... had to hitch a ride back down to CLT to fly home.. ugh..

to D zug boys : thanks alot for the tip about Zuffenhaus in Charlotte. I will try that. was there when your beautiful 935 hydroplaned..and did not know it had frame damage..

thanks again to everyone for there responses and the emails. this group is fantastic

frank

[Tom '74 911]

Man, that is such a bummer... I'm assuming nobody was hurt in the incident on the highway and just property damage. People always say "stuff can be replaced, people - not so much" which is true, but doesn't help with the giant PITA situation.

Let's officially call this the 3rd incident (the saying goes, "bad things come in threes" right?) and that it's only positive experiences for you from here on...

Zuffenhaus is a great suggestion BTW.

All the best,
Tom

[pkracer21j]

Originally Posted by Geneman

thanks to everyone for really great advice. well this story gets even worse. i was trailering the car back from dallas (to philadelphia) on friday. got as far as just north of charlotte and my tow vehicle engine lets go in a big way... oil fire, everything. right on I85. so now my worthless tow vehicle (160K 2004 Navigator) and the enclosed trailer are sitting in NC at a AAA shop... had to hitch a ride back down to CLT to fly home.. ugh..

to D zug boys : thanks alot for the tip about Zuffenhaus in Charlotte. I will try that. was there when your beautiful 935 hydroplaned..and did not know it had frame damage..

thanks again to everyone for there responses and the emails. this group is fantastic

frank

It doesn't now!