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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Anderson, SC, USA
Posts: 128
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Oil leak hunt........
I have an oil leak on my 80SC Euro. It appears to be coming from somewhere high on the pass side of the engine.... I had a small leak at the sump plate that I straightened out this weekend, but this leak is dripping right onto the heat exchanger!! This of course causes lots of smoke to billow out of the rear of the car....
I have heard that the oil cooler seals could be causing this? If so does that mean I need to drop the engine to replace them? If it isnt the oil cooler what else could it be in that area? I almost have her ready to drive, except for this small but VERY annoying leak!! Thanks, Ben in SC |
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10-09-2001, 07:31 AM
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Does it look like this?
 ------------------ Dan Tolley 1987 911 Coupe http://www.cheaterswayside.com/911/gallery.asp?sort=0&userid=294 |
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10-09-2001, 08:31 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Anderson, SC, USA
Posts: 128
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It looks similar, although there is no oil where the exhaust bolts to the heads.
The Heat exchanger is soaked and a drop forms on the forward most point, towards the front of the car under the oil cooler..... Any idea? Ben in SC |
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10-09-2001, 09:08 AM
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I have heard many say the Sender causes leaks like this.
The sender is in the passenger front-side of the engine. Looking at the engine it is behind the CIS intake on the engine block. I am sure someone who has already done this will give a better description. I think I need to do mine soon too. Good Luck! ------------------ Nick Hromyak '85 Carrera 7 & 9 Fuchs Havin' Fun in Sacramento |
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10-09-2001, 09:21 AM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Lacey, WA. USA
Posts: 25,310
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My oil thermostat o-ring is leaking like a sieve, and this is causing oil to flow down the back (toward the front of the car) side of the oil cooler. If this area of your engine, including the starter area, is caked with grime, then your oil thermostat o-ring may be leaking. The good news is that the o-ring is very inexpensive and the oil thermostat comes out easily when you have access to the top of the motor, where it is located. The bad news is that the easiest way to access this on my car is the remove the engine.
------------------ '83 SC |
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10-09-2001, 09:50 AM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 281
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I'm not sure if this will help but here goes....
 Both my oil sender and thermostat were leaking. I had the motor out to do the fix. I think doing it with the motor still in is possible, just might be tough getting at parts. |
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10-09-2001, 12:05 PM
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Lacey, WA. USA
Posts: 25,310
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It is probably possible in my car too, but it may be just as easy to remove the engine. This does appear easier in your car.
I would say that you do have a leak at the top of the engine case, such as in the thermostat o-ring area, but it also looks like your crankcase breather plate may also be leaking. It is rectangular. Oil does not flow uphill, so this leak does appear to be at the top of the engine case. ------------------ '83 SC |
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10-09-2001, 01:03 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Anderson, SC, USA
Posts: 128
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Hopefully I will have time this weekend to get in there and do a good inspection to see exactlly where it is coming from?
Anyone know for sure if the oil cooler can be removed with the engine in the car? If so what else has to come off with it? Ben in SC |
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10-10-2001, 06:08 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 4,403
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Yes, you can remove the oil cooler while the motor is in the car. You have to remove the airbox and move some other things, but it is possible.
------------------ Matt Chamblin 78 911 SC |
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10-10-2001, 07:34 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Marysville Wa.
Posts: 22,431
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pull the lower rocker cover off and check for a broken head stud. that crusty buildup on the exhaust flange is a sign of a head to cylinder leak.
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10-10-2001, 08:36 AM
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John.. are you talking about my pic? When you say "Rocker cover" do you mean valve cover?
I looked for a broken stud last week. After inserting the proper sized allen into each stud, and giving a good tug, I found nothing moving. I'd assumed that meant there were no broken studs... is there a better way? After finding the leak I started trying to locate the source. Could it be a leak between the cyl/case? There is no slapping or other "un-normal" noise while driving. Just the occaisional smoke after idling at a stoplight (when I pull away). I'm waiting for my compression guage to arrive so I can try and trace my excessive oil consumption and fouled plug on #6. I first thought valve, guide wear, broken pistion rings... now I'm really confused. I sure wish your shop wasn't 3,000+ miles away.  Thanks, ------------------ Dan Tolley 1987 911 Coupe http://www.cheaterswayside.com/911/gallery.asp?sort=0&userid=294 |
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10-10-2001, 09:41 AM
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Location: Marysville Wa.
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valve cover/rocker cover, same thing basically. an oil cooler leak or one from the top of the engine usually is closer to the cooler mounting flange or the clyinder base. yours pprobably is coming from between the head and cylinder due to uneven mating surfaces.
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10-10-2001, 09:47 AM
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So, since it doesn't appear to be a head stud, or cooler leak, but rather "uneven mating surfaces" is the only solution a rebuild? Am I looking at a full rebuild or would a top end/machine work take care of it?
Do you think (I know these are really unanswerable questions from one picture and never having seen the car) this could account for my fouled plug and oil consumption? ------------------ Dan Tolley 1987 911 Coupe http://www.cheaterswayside.com/911/gallery.asp?sort=0&userid=294 |
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10-10-2001, 10:08 AM
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Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: TX USA
Posts: 9,804
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Dan,
Fouled plug and oil consumption could be due to worn intake valve stems or guides due to those orange elastomer valve stem seals. Have you attempted to see if there is visible valve stem side play with the intake valve covers off? Not as easy for the intakes as the exhaust valves, but possible. ------------------ Warren Hall 1973 911S Targa 1992 Dodge Dakota 5.2 4X4 parts hauler |
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10-10-2001, 10:28 AM
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I did try and check for play. It's damn tough to even touch a valve stem, and even tougher to push on it enough to move it. There doesn't seem to be much movement, but I have no frame of reference (besides the other valves).
When I last brought the car in for service I had them check for valve guide wear.. they said everything appeared ok. However, I don't have a lot of confidence in any of the shops (all 2 of them) near me. That's why I've been undertaking much of my own servicing. Also 'cause I'm just a poor guy in a nice car :-) The above oil leak worries me a bit. It would be nice if it was just an o-ring or seal on some sender. The thought of "uneven mating surfaces" makes me cringe. I figure if the cyl/head is leaking that much, then it's probably getting some oil into the combustion (ie. fouled plug). Any damage likely to occur from driving a car with "uneven mating surfaces" if I don't hear any slapping/noise? I'm pretty convinced that my problems will not be simple fixes. Right now it's a matter of diagnosing what's wrong, and what I'm going to have to do (or pay someone else to do). ------------------ Dan Tolley 1987 911 Coupe http://www.cheaterswayside.com/911/gallery.asp?sort=0&userid=294 |
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10-10-2001, 10:41 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Anderson, SC, USA
Posts: 128
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Here is what my leak looks like....
 and here is the top of the engine...  I did tighten the valve cover bolts slightly and wiped off the small droplet on the bottom of the head. I ran the engine for a while, let it get good and hot. After about 45 mins the droplet did not reappear? Ben in SC [This message has been edited by BenWillis (edited 10-10-2001).] [This message has been edited by BenWillis (edited 10-10-2001).] |
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10-10-2001, 04:56 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Marysville Wa.
Posts: 22,431
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test
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10-10-2001, 05:21 PM
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Location: Marysville Wa.
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dan, just because you have an oil problem in that cylinder has no bearing on the leak. two different problems.
ben, a leak in that spot could be valve cover, oil return tube seals, head to cam tower leakage, or rocker arm shaft leakage. |
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10-10-2001, 05:28 PM
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How soon I forget "Correlation does not prove Causation"...
I'm going to do a compression test sometime next week (when the tools arrive). IF I were to get a low reading in #6 what could I imply from it? Thanks John for your help, and Warren too.  ------------------ Dan Tolley 1987 911 Coupe http://www.cheaterswayside.com/911/gallery.asp?sort=0&userid=294 |
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10-10-2001, 06:09 PM
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Location: Marysville Wa.
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a worn out valve guide will not show up on a compression test. only ring and valve leakage.(and head to cylinder leakage if it's loose enough). if you are oil fouling a plug, that should be reason enough to tear it down and find out why.
[This message has been edited by john walker's workshop (edited 10-11-2001).] |
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10-11-2001, 07:44 AM
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1987 Porsche 911 3.2 
Porsche
