Looking to buy a late 80's 911, need help

[LookingForA911]

Hi, I am new to this forum. Greetings from a vortexer, yeah I own a VW gti glx. I am looking to get out of my 2000 gti and get in to a late 80's/early 90's 911. I have been to a few places, looked at a 87 911 Carrera Cab (51K miles, asking price $29K), a 94 911 Carrera 2 Coupe (52K miles, $39K). I like the cab, it is red/black looks pretty clean. I do not like the color of the coupe, it is a very dull color. Anyhow I need your opinions on these cars, what to look for, what do you think about these particular cars?... The guy at this place talked about Porsche introducing couple of bugs in 1990, which were later fixed, I think he mentioned the clutch as one of the 'bugs'. Is he talking crack or what?.

Cheers.
Frank.

[Yargk]

I'm sure you can find a lot of information by searching this site. There is a fairly significant difference between a late 80s 911 carrera and the early 90s carrera 2. The body styles are different and I suggest you settle on one style if it will make a difference to you. The C2 did have a problem with it's dual mass clutch, however I believe many were fixed under warranty. There was also a problem with some of the engines leaking oil. However, all in all, I'm sure you'd be able to find a reliable model. Basically, the c2s are a little more luxurious, heavier, and more powerful. The Carrera makes 217 hp and weighs 1250 kg. The C2 makes 250 hp and weighs 1350 kg. I prefer the late eighties models because they are lighter and I don't particularly like the normally aspirated c2 look.

Keith
79 930

[LookingForA911]

Thanks for the info Yargk. Yeah I have been reading older threads, I did a few searches and spent a lot of time reading them. But still I thought I post a questions and get direct help. I have not driven the cars yet, but when I make a decision I will drive it, most likely the cab. Is there anything I need to look at for?, I think it has an automatic top. What do you think of the price?. Tomorrow I am going to find out about the insurance and financing it. I have not tried to finance a car made in 87 before.

[nostatic]

The two cars will feel much different. but then again, every 911 I've driven has felt different (even within the same years). You might want to do some more research before jumping in, and before buying any P-car, a pre purchase inspection by a good shop is highly recommended.

One thing to look for in the '87 is premature valve guide wear. noisy valves that don't get quiet upon adjustment is a red flag (again, you need a mechanic and good records to help you out). The '94 doesn't have the issues of the early '90s cars (ie the dual mass flywheel was changed, and the engine seal issue was fixed).

As for financing, PeopleFirst is great for older cars.

[speeder]

Here in CA., $29k for an '87 would be tip-top dollar. The car would have to be flawless. $25k cash could buy a creampuff, if you're a good hunter. Check e-bay, not to buy, but for a good price guide.

[ebradway]

Speeder is on the money - literally. $29K should buy about as nice of an '87 as exists. You'll probably find some bias on this board towards SCs and Carrera's (78-83, 84-89). The 87-89 Carrera's got the new G50 transmission. In 1989 Porsche changed 85% of the car to create the Carrera 4 and in 1990 released the Carrera 2. You should find prices all over the map on both cars. Don't spend too much. And if you have good credit, financing is not an issue. Insurance isn't bad either.

[LookingForA911]

Thank you all.

The cab at $29K is pretty clean, but I do not think it is flawless.

So 85% of the car changed in 1989 for the better I guess. May be the color of the C2 coupe will grow on me

[Don Plumley]

Change can be good. The 964 and the '87-89 are fairly different cars - you should hone in on the differences and decide for yourself what floats your boat.

The 964 issues have been well documented on this board - but nothing that a good PPI will not uncover. The maintenance costs are about 2x the '87-89 Carrera - this is not insignificant as many 964's are hitting the expensive years...

I'm inherently biased, as I own an 87 and made the choice based on things that appeal to me. There are SC guys that don't like newer Carreras, and pre-73 guys that don't like SC's. Different cars for different reasons. Coming from a new VW, the better HVAC, airbags, ABS and other new stuff might appeal to you. For me, I wanted a little more visceral experience, without losing all the amenities.

I suggest you drive both (and they both need to be a coupe or convertible to make the comparison valid) and see what you like. Don't be in a rush to buy the first one you see, there are more bad cars than good ones.

BTW, Tom Sharpes had his 964 Targa up for sale, you would not find a cleaner example.

Good Luck, and don't forget that PPI!

Don


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don@plumley.org
Das Zoom - '87 Carrera

[Sportsman]

i think the C2's look more modern. in fact, people confuse mine for new. also, it is faster; how can you g wrong.

you can find a nice one for 27-32k

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Daryl Planter 91C2
Targa

[emcon5]

For some good background on cars up to 89, read Bruce Anderson's articles here:

http://www.pcapotomac.org/Features/Buy_a_Porsche/buy_a_porsche.asp

Good 911 FAQ here:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/911/technical_specs/911_guthrie_faq.htm

Tom



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82 911SC Coupe

[Mike Feinstein]

The 964's, especially the later ones (93 and 94) are faster, smoother, and will keep you cooler in the summer than the late 80's cars. The later 964's have all of the hiccups resolved with factory designed updates and are as solid as a brick. I drive my 964 pretty hard and have never had even a hiccup. The car is easy to work on, a pleasure to drive, responds well to modifications, and is relatively cheap to own.

I have a co-worker with a 72 340 Roadrunner in very nice shape. We gave it a run after work today and I pulled away from him like he was pulling a boat! I love this car more every time I drive it...I suspect you would too. Good luck with the search.

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Mike
94 C2 cab

[LookingForA911]

Wow! this is a lot of good information. Thank you all. I do not want to rush into it but, what can I say I got the bug

[JOHNPAUL]

I have a 1990 ,C4 ,. Cab. for sale .




Let me know if your interested,,,

[89911]

Buying a late 80's 911 lets you own the accumulation of pefection in the 25 plus years of production of the car. Jumping into a 964 give you a car thats history lasted 4 years. If you take away the 2 early production years that most are told to avoid, your left with 2 years to choose from. One must wonder why if these cars were such good cars, they were canned in 94 for another completely new car the 993(which only lasted 5 years!) OK, of course I am biased, but I wasn't seeing anyone suggesting the late 80's cars. Proven history, easy to work on, easy to upgrade, tons of parts and upgrades, immeasurable road feel, no power steering...etc. I argue that many of the "improvements" made on the 964 weren't in the interest of keeping the cars performance heritage in mind. Airbags, power steering, improved AC, sound deadening, clutch change to eliminate G50 noises were added to tempt the buyers of early 90's from buying more refined vehicles such as Supra's and Corvettes. Porsche was going bankrupt about this time and hasty decisions were being made. They couldn't even make an injection system for the 964 turbos and had to use the old late 80's motors and electronics in an effort to get a car out. Sure the 964 cars had more power and bigger brakes, they needed it to help move and stop the additional 300+ lbs they gained. Read Paul Frere's book, a great insight into 911 history if you get a chance.

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8 9 9 1 1, The last of the line.

[This message has been edited by 89911 (edited 10-15-2001).]

[86Carrera]

I considered the same cars you did before I bought little over a year ago. At that time 87 Carreras, really nice ones, were going for $25-26K in Los Angeles area. Early 90s 964s were going for the low $30s. Now just one year later prime Carreras are still going for mid $20s but 964s seem to be in the low - mid $20s.

Maintenance work on the 964 requires dropping the exhaust system which was not required on the Carreras. That makes maintenance costs higher, plus it's a more complicated car. Early 964s were troublesome as mentioned in the posts above, need to make sure the corrective work was done right and even then I would still be a bit uneasy.

The 94 you mentioned sounds great. By 94 they worked out all of the bugs and the 3.6L engine has much, much more power than the Carrera. I have an 86 Coupe and trust me there's no comparison for engine power.

But the Carreras have a raw, pure, lightweight charm that makes them hard to resist. Look at how many people who buy a 993 or 996 decide to keep their old 3.2L Carrera.

The problem is finding a nice one (probably because of the above!), I looked for about a year for an 87 in my price range, gave up and bought an 86. It's true they built a lot of these and there are lots for sale used but finding really, really nice ones, not abused, repainted, wrecked, etc. is very difficult.

[cab83_750]

Originally posted by emcon5:
For some good background on cars up to 89, read Bruce Anderson's articles here:

http://www.pcapotomac.org/Features/Buy_a_Porsche/buy_a_porsche.asp

Good 911 FAQ here:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/911/technical_specs/911_guthrie_faq.htm

Tom

Tom,

Where in the (&(*&(&( did B. Anderson get his numbers. I mean, the article stated ....." The Targas will usually run a few hundred dollars more than the coupes and the cabriolets, which were only built in 1983 run from about $20,000 to $30,000 so they are clearly out of our price range."

I hope he is right!!!!!!! I have an '83 Cab with about 20K on rebuilt engine! I guess I will be keeping my car. Heck, I paid a lot less for it 4 years ago! Wife of a Porsche mechanic did not like the P-Car and decided she would keep her 450SL. So, he sold it to me with a rebuilt engine! HEE HAH!

[Mark Howard]

My '88 is also for sale:



E-mail me.



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Mark Howard
'97 993 Carrera
'88 Carrera
'62 356/B (going into the hanger)
'75 914 1.8 (resto in final stages)

[LookingForA911]

A number of members have emailed me, and posted their cars here for sale. Now I have more options Unfortunately I am still trying to get the finance sorted out, the last quote was 17.5% APR, and you can guess what I said.

[rbertels]

A good source for financing is JJ Best & Co. They advertise in Hemmings Motor News.
Two years ago I financed my 87 Coupe with them for 10.5%.

They specialize in collectibles and exotics.

rbertels
87 911 Coupe

[emcon5]

Originally posted by cab83_750:
Tom,

Where in the (&(*&(&( did B. Anderson get his numbers.

The article is a few years old, and the prices shown reflect the market at the time.

The article on early 911's says "the newest of these 911's are twenty four years old now"

1973 + 24 = 1997

Tom