Crazy Wobble... Looking for Advice

[Jgordon]

Hello,

I've been chasing a weird wobble for several years. Below are the clues:

1. Car drives like it's on glass up to 80 MPH.

2. Above 80, there's a wobble that can be felt through the steering wheel and the seat.

3. It comes and goes.

3a. It can come and go based on long sweeping turns.

3b. It can come and go on its own (straights).

4. It doesn't matter whether the clutch pedal is depressed.

5. I've had the tires changed; no difference.

I've had the wheels balanced a number of times. Each time, the problem goes way down, only to come back in slowly and grow through time.

I'm talking to Cheech up at Rennwerke. He's convinced it's not an axle or the differential, which were ideas I had (given that I've balanced the wheels so many times). He's also pretty sure the wheels are true, and that his guys balanced them well the last time I was in.

So what I have is an intermittent wobble, that doesn't seem to have any apparent source, and that isn't solved by wheel balancing.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

[TibetanT]

Check your wheel bearings and your ball joints.

Just my .02 cents.

Good luck.

[robdiver]

Give Cheech the car and let him fix it. It will cost a few $$$$$ but it will be fixed.

[Jgordon]

Wheel bearings have been checked, but I'll ask him to check them again.

Cheech had it last time, and they did the last wheel balance. He's scratching his head a bit (as I am), at what this could be.

[bpu699]

Redo your alignment to have more toe in... that will mask a lot of vibrations...

Then check your tie rods/steering column u joints, etc...

Does the steering wheel wobble? Or does the car just shake?

[theiceman]

don't you have any spare wheels ? find a buddy with some wheels that will fit and put them on . you need to eliminate the wheels not the tires. I have three sets of wheels for my car for example coz im too lazy to sell them , im sure there might be a pelican in your area with a set of wheels lying around for troubleshooting.

[DanielDudley]

You want to have your wheels balanced on a Hunter Road Force tire balancer, It balances the wheel with a rolling resistance.

Hunter GSP9700 Wheel vibration Control System solves wheel vibration and tire pull problems that balancers and aligners can't fix

[targa44]

I'm going to guess it's mechanical.... somewhere in the links. You've tried several things along the way. Here's 2 things (not knowing if you've isolated front or rear) that have happened to me:
Front - Boge struts with Bilstein inserts... the wedge pin that secures the bottom of the insert to the strut can back out or be loose and might? set up a vertical vibraton - but it seems it would happen at any speed.
Rear - Didn't have the large cotter pin securing the axle nut installed and a rear wheel was trying to come off.

good luck,

[Jeff NJ]

I had a slight shimmy over 80mph. New tires, perfect wheels, etc. Then my steering column bushing failed and after I replaced it, no shimmy regardless of speed.
Does your steering wheel have any play left and right or up and down?

[Jgordon]

Originally Posted by theiceman

don't you have any spare wheels ? find a buddy with some wheels that will fit and put them on . you need to eliminate the wheels not the tires. I have three sets of wheels for my car for example coz im too lazy to sell them , im sure there might be a pelican in your area with a set of wheels lying around for troubleshooting.

I have two spare sixes, which I replaced with the sevens that are on the front now. I'd hate to think it's the eights on the rear...

Originally Posted by bpu699

Redo your alignment to have more toe in... that will mask a lot of vibrations...

Then check your tie rods/steering column u joints, etc...

Does the steering wheel wobble? Or does the car just shake?

I don't want to mask the vibration; I want to find it and fix it.

Steering wheel and rest of car.

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

You want to have your wheels balanced on a Hunter Road Force tire balancer, It balances the wheel with a rolling resistance.

Hunter GSP9700 Wheel vibration Control System solves wheel vibration and tire pull problems that balancers and aligners can't fix

Rennwerke Roadforced them last time. Will ask about GSP9700.

Originally Posted by targa44

I'm going to guess it's mechanical.... somewhere in the links. You've tried several things along the way. Here's 2 things (not knowing if you've isolated front or rear) that have happened to me:
Front - Boge struts with Bilstein inserts... the wedge pin that secures the bottom of the insert to the strut can back out or be loose and might? set up a vertical vibraton - but it seems it would happen at any speed.
Rear - Didn't have the large cotter pin securing the axle nut installed and a rear wheel was trying to come off.

good luck,

Thanks. Will ask him to look into all of this.

Originally Posted by Jeff NJ

I had a slight shimmy over 80mph. New tires, perfect wheels, etc. Then my steering column bushing failed and after I replaced it, no shimmy regardless of speed.
Does your steering wheel have any play left and right or up and down?

I replaced the steering wheel bushing a few years ago when it disintegrated. I think I used the Leland Pate bearing that he developed on Pelican?

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Jgordon

He's also pretty sure the wheels are true,

Did Cheech give you Hunter printouts that verified all 4 wheels are true?
The report would state the rim runout to the 1/1000th of an inch, and determine a binary pass/fail on the wheel.
Apparently, you can balance a bent wheel, but it may be a band aid that causes uneven tire wear.

Alternatively, you can call this guy in Yonkers.
The Wheel Doctor NY Wheel Repair and Vibration Specialist | Wheel Repair and Vibration in NY
He is a wheel freak, knows 911s, and he will definitively rule out your wheels, if true.
If a wheel is bent, he will straighten, remount, and RoadForce balance it for $175.

[Jgordon]

I did not get printouts. I'll give this guy a call and see what he has to say.

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Did Cheech give you Hunter printouts that verified all 4 wheels are true?
The report would state the rim runout to the 1/1000th of an inch, and determine a binary pass/fail on the wheel.
Apparently, you can balance a bent wheel, but it may be a band aid that causes uneven tire wear.

Alternatively, you can call this guy in Yonkers.
The Wheel Doctor NY Wheel Repair and Vibration Specialist | Wheel Repair and Vibration in NY
He is a wheel freak, knows 911s, and he will definitively rule out your wheels, if true.
If a wheel is bent, he will straighten, remount, and RoadForce balance it for $175.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Alternatively, you can call this guy in Yonkers.

Good input.

Daniel Dudley's rolling resistance is a keeper as well.

I say rubber.

[Jgordon]

Appreciate all the feedback. Heading into Wheel Dr. on Friday with the car and my original two front sixes. Heading into Rennwerke on Saturday, hopefully with that problem solved, for next steps.

[sugarwood]

Any resolution ?

[gsxrken]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Any resolution ?

Yes, I'm interested to hear about your experience at that Wheel Doctor shop.
Rennewerke has very mixed reviews here over the years but I have no personal elperience with them. If you still cannot get a resolution, I'd suggest a trip up to Dan Jacobs in CT. He posts here now and then and has done right by me for corner balance and alignments. Never heard of any drama with him, either.

[Jgordon]

To put a nail in this one, and to pump a quality business, Wheel Dr. was able to give me more information and care than any of the top NYC area shops had over the last 3-4 years. One of my tires is basically a mess - it was throwing 36 lbs of pressure on the road force machine. Tony(?) spun it on the wheel a number of times before declaring it fit. How the other shops missed it is a mystery. This guy does top quality work, and was a genuine pleasure to spend an hour or two with. I can't recommend him highly enough. No one else will ever mount tires for me again.

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Did Cheech give you Hunter printouts that verified all 4 wheels are true?
The report would state the rim runout to the 1/1000th of an inch, and determine a binary pass/fail on the wheel.
Apparently, you can balance a bent wheel, but it may be a band aid that causes uneven tire wear.

Alternatively, you can call this guy in Yonkers.
The Wheel Doctor NY Wheel Repair and Vibration Specialist | Wheel Repair and Vibration in NY
He is a wheel freak, knows 911s, and he will definitively rule out your wheels, if true.
If a wheel is bent, he will straighten, remount, and RoadForce balance it for $175.

[sugarwood]

So all you needed to do was replace one tire?

[Jgordon]

Yep. A few of the other tires were slightly off balance but it was one rear that was the main culprit. I didn't even replace it as I had to leave with the car that day. He spun it about five times in the rim to get it as good as possible. It's a thousand times better. Still noticeable but I'll replace when I can.

The mystery is why four other shops missed it... They were putting weights on it and calling it good.

Originally Posted by sugarwood

So all you needed to do was replace one tire?