RS America a "Real RS"?

[1969_911S]

Is an RS America a "Real RS"? Another way of putting it, is an RSA owner calling it an "RS" without qualification a "poser"?

No question that the Euro 964 RS is the real deal, but it was much lighter and did have more horsepower. The RSA weighs only 100 lb or so less, and has the same horsepower as a stock C2.

Notwithstanding the similarity, I'm inclined to think it is a real "RS" because that's how the factory labelled it. A pretty watered down RS, but a true RS nonetheless.

It's a semantics question more than anything I suppose.

What are your opinions?

[pwd72s]

why not just call it an RS America? That's what it is...

[DavidPorter]

Some Porsche person was once quoted as saying the RS America was just a "de-contented" (sorry, I hate industry jargon) 911 for the American market. They deleted a few things to save some weight since the real Euro RS wasn't coming over. Now someone get disgusted with theirs and hand it over.

[CarreraCab]

1969_911S, In response to your post, I would have to agree with you, I think that the RS America is a "real" RS, albeit not one that you or I would have put together for the US market, if we didnt have our beloved EPA and Dot to deal with. There is no chance these days to offer "Glaverbal" light weight glass, or a tub that does not pass current crash standards. I might be mistaken, but I believe the Euro RS and the US RS share the same motor. Just think of what we could have had if the standards were based on 1972-3 requirements!, We could have had a stripped version, for the street, weighing roughly 500lbs less. Kind of breaks your heart, doesnt it ? Doug Kubany

[RSupdate]

My .02 here......

The original '73 RS and the later RS America, are, as we all know, two completely different animals.

In 1973 the RS set the standard. The benchmark was set.

fast forward to the early 90's and the RS America...... based on the political climate and coresponding DOT regulations, that was probably about the best that could be done in light of all factors.

So in short, no it is not a real RS, in the same vein of the original.

Still a very, very nice 911, for sure......

Cheers !!

[Typical Fish]

Try here...

www.rsamerica.net

[skinnerd]

If you want to base it on pure performance, then the RS America is every bit as good as a true "RS". I know from trying to hunt them down on different racetracks around the country with my 73 RS lightweight replica. RSA's are dang fast... the bigger motor with more torque, ABS brakes, more sophisticated suspension more than make up for the excess weight they carry. Do they feel like a 73 RS in nimbleness... likely not, but they are powerfully fast machines on the track or autocross circuit for that matter.

I still like my 73 RS replica, and don't plan on trading it in on an RSA.

[john_colasante]

The RS America is not a "real" RS. It is just a Carrera 2 USA version with a few relatively minor option changes - and I mean minor. Most RS Americas were optioned with A/C and sunroof making them just about as heavy as a Carrera 2 anyway. If you encounter a very fast RS America on a racetrack it is because it has been further modified and lightened by the owner, not because it came this way stock. As far as the engine on the RS America, it is not the same as the "real" 911 RS. The real 911 RS is a blueprinted version of the Carrera 2 engine and it uses a different DME to give about 20-30 more horsepower. The RS America engine is the same as a regular Carrera 2 USA engine.

That said, the RS America is still a special model. It's nice that Porsche tried to do something like this, but in reality it was a marketing failure in 1992-3. Nobody wanted these cars. They sold for $10,000 less than a regular Carrera 2 on the lot but they sat there. Once they finally sold them all Porsche was gun shy about doing something like this again, hence we never saw a version of the 993 RS on these shores. Fast forward to 2003, Porsche is trying again. They will be selling the GT3 in the USA. This time it promised to be alot more like the European version of the GT3 which should be very exciting for enthusiasts. We'll see.

With regard to the '73 RS setting the bar, it is no doubt an important model in the history of the 911 - arguably the most important. However later 911 RS models, based on the type 964 and type 993 surpassed it in rawness, performance and power to weight ratio. Emotions aside, these cars raised the bar set by the venerable '73 RS. Most USA enthusiasts don't know much about these cars, or tout misinformation, leading to the belief that Porsche stopped producing fast, fun and exciting sports purpose 911's in the 1970's. The new USA version of the GT3, if it's all that it promises to be, will finally give USA buyers a taste of a real sports purpose normally aspirated 911 again.

[Eric Mckenna]

Originally posted by john_colasante
The RS America is not a "real" RS. It is just a Carrera 2 USA version with a few relatively minor option changes - and I mean minor. Most RS Americas were optioned with A/C and sunroof making them just about as heavy as a Carrera 2 anyway. If you encounter a very fast RS America on a racetrack it is because it has been further modified and lightened by the owner, not because it came this way stock. As far as the engine on the RS America, it is not the same as the "real" 911 RS. The real 911 RS is a blueprinted version of the Carrera 2 engine and it uses a different DME to give about 20-30 more horsepower. The RS America engine is the same as a regular Carrera 2 USA engine.

That said, the RS America is still a special model. It's nice that Porsche tried to do something like this, but in reality it was a marketing failure in 1992-3. Nobody wanted these cars. They sold for $10,000 less than a regular Carrera 2 on the lot but they sat there. Once they finally sold them all Porsche was gun shy about doing something like this again, hence we never saw a version of the 993 RS on these shores. Fast forward to 2003, Porsche is trying again. They will be selling the GT3 in the USA. This time it promised to be alot more like the European version of the GT3 which should be very exciting for enthusiasts. We'll see.

With regard to the '73 RS setting the bar, it is no doubt an important model in the history of the 911 - arguably the most important. However later 911 RS models, based on the type 964 and type 993 surpassed it in rawness, performance and power to weight ratio. Emotions aside, these cars raised the bar set by the venerable '73 RS. Most USA enthusiasts don't know much about these cars, or tout misinformation, leading to the belief that Porsche stopped producing fast, fun and exciting sports purpose 911's in the 1970's. The new USA version of the GT3, if it's all that it promises to be, will finally give USA buyers a taste of a real sports purpose normally aspirated 911 again.

COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF.. I DON'T THNK IT'S A "REAL"RS EITHER IT IS ONLY BY VIN NOT IN PERFORMANCE

ERIC MCKENNA

[GeorgeK]

John,
There is zero difference between a std Carrera 2/4 engine and a RS engine of the same vintage in the 964 series (blower motor and fan belt aside). The factory just put aside the engines that tested well on the factory dyno, to be used in the RSs. This means that there can well be some Carrera 2 and 4 that have engines as good as these in the RSs, put in when the RSs were done. The DME is the same too.
The RSamerica is a very nice car, but it is still a Carrera 2 with AC, electric windows and a fixed rear wing.

GeorgeK

[john_colasante]

George,

I think you are incorrect about the DME. I am pretty sure that the RS, USA Cup and Carrera Cup use a different DME than the USA Carrera 2 which yields slighly more power.

As for the engine itself I agree there is alot of folklore about this and I agree it's possible that a regular Carrera 2 engine is just as good. Some take your position but others say the factory definately used a selected engine in the RS models including the USA Cup and the Carrera Cup cars. We may never know but I like to think these engines are at least on the right side of the bell curve.

Further, the Carrera RS has the blower motor. Only the Cup car has the bypass tube. Little details, but we all love them.

[930fan]

A USA spec 964 3.6 motor is rated at 247 bhp (SAE) or 250 bhp (DIN). A 964 RS America is rated by Porsche at exactly the same specification. A Euro spec 964 RS is rated at 260 bhp(DIN). This 10 bhp extra came from somewhere, most likely a DME upgrade plus some blueprinting work from the factory. Various independent dyno tests have indicated that the difference in power between the two is even higher than quoted by the factory.

The European RS also came with an ultra low and ultra stiff suspension plus the best 4 piston calipers and discs the factory had at the time (unlike the RSA). Not 100% sure but the Euro 964 RS also had an lsd as standard.

Whether or not an RSA can be called a real RS or not is debateable but it is definetely a big step down from a Euro spec 964 RS which now commands a very significant premium in Europe over a plain 964 of the same vintage.

[Speedster94]

hallo
The Euro RS is very different from a RSA or a C2. The Body has no undercoating , thinner Glass , Alloy hood , mechanical Windows,
Recaro seats , etc.
You could not get AC or Sunroof , nor Radio !
It has the G50/10 Gearbox with LSD and Steelsyncros ,no powersteering . Modified 965 Turbobrakes , Bilsteinsuspension ( option Uniball and Bilstein Sport)
The Engine is Blueprinted and yes the Motronic is different , the Rev. limit is higher too. They are rated at 260 HP but i have seen none below 285 HP .
This car was made for the Track and all you needed was changing Tires .Besides the Touringversion above you could have a Clubsport with Cage, no Carpet etc.
Truly the last real RS , in the 993 RS you had PS , could order AC and Sunroof and that was when the RS faded . I had a GT3
CLUBSPORT with Rollbar Fireextinguisher etc. AND AC and Navigation ,that killed that Car !!
I do like the 993 and the GT3 but they are far away from the true RS ,in my eyes the 73 and later the 964.
Harald

[Randy W]

Biggest difference between 964 C2 and a RSA is the power steering delete. The 75 lb weight loss is actually not that noticeable in a 2700 lb car. Still a nice car, but not even close to a Euro RS (or '73 RS). I actually think I'd rather have the power steering in that heavy a car, unless it spent most of the time on the track.

[9XI]

It's an RS in my opinion. I has much of what you'd expect from any RS -- weight reduction, sport suspension, sport look, options delete, RS badging. The thing that makes it a little less of an RS is that the factory didn't do anything to the engine. It is exactly the same as the Carrera 2/4 of the same year. Not sure why, but it is probably the smog laws.

That being said, most RSA owners have done what the factory didn't -- added that extra 30 HP to the motor by changing air flow and exhaust. The 280 HP that most RSA's have is more than the much celebrated 260 HP Euro RS.

Whatever, if the factory called it an RS, it is an RS -- period.

[Chuck Moreland]

RS is not a title or performance catagory. It's a model that was built in '73.

[Bones]

Originally posted by Chuck Moreland
RS is not a title or performance catagory. It's a model that was built in '73.

you serious Chuck or is that comment just to stir things up ......anyway if you don't know which I' m sure you do RS stands for Rennsport .......literally sport/racing.......so it's just the factories way of identifying Porsche's ultimate N/A models