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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Verburg View Post
Running a racing caliper which doesn't have dust seals on the street isn't a great idea.

When run on a track car they are rebuilt and attended to frequently.
Here,...right here!!!!!

Mr. Bill speaks volumes of wisdom on this; if you use race calipers on the street, plan on replacing the caliper seals fairly often, otherwise the consequences of brake failure will be quite
expensive.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:15 PM
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Are these really cool/expensive race calipers even needed for a street car??
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan H View Post
Hey Fellas,

I called a good friend at Wilwood today and told him us air cooled guys are ready for a kit and it must fit under 15's. It's now being discussed. I'll keep you guys updated!

I've used Wilwood on all my vehicles since the late 90's.

Wow that would be amazing
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84 lime green back date (LWB 911R with RS rear flares) hot rod - absolute riot to drive!
RSR look hot rod, based on 75' SOLD
73 911t 3.0SC Hot rod Gulf Blue - Sold.
Old 01-06-2017, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by tobluforu View Post
Are these really cool/expensive race calipers even needed for a street car??
Thats the thing - did you check the prices? really low cost, I think you could do a front set up with Turbo sized rotors for ~$700.
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84 lime green back date (LWB 911R with RS rear flares) hot rod - absolute riot to drive!
RSR look hot rod, based on 75' SOLD
73 911t 3.0SC Hot rod Gulf Blue - Sold.
Old 01-06-2017, 05:10 AM
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930 size brake option for $750 using Wilwood parts???

Here is a thread where I did some pricing research
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84 lime green back date (LWB 911R with RS rear flares) hot rod - absolute riot to drive!
RSR look hot rod, based on 75' SOLD
73 911t 3.0SC Hot rod Gulf Blue - Sold.
Old 01-06-2017, 05:22 AM
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I have Wilwood Superlites on my racecar. They are fine calipers, but as noted, plan to rebuild them more frequently due to lack of dust seals on the pistons.

My dad put the same calipers on the front of a '70 911 track car years ago with Carrera rotors, and they worked pretty well. If you get the piston sizes right in the Wilwoods (there are a few options), you can keep the brake bias where it needs to be too. He kept the stock rear calipers (it was a 911S), and bias was OK.

Also, consider upgrading the master cylinder to a larger one. Wilwoods are 4 piston calipers, so there is more brake fluid displaced when you step on the pedal. I recall that on my parents' car the brake pedal was softer with the Wilwoods. I forget now, but I seem to recall that there was a 23mm Mercedes one that people used to use. Not sure what the options are these days.
Old 01-06-2017, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobluforu View Post
Are these really cool/expensive race calipers even needed for a street car??
no!
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Old 01-06-2017, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stownsen914 View Post
I have Wilwood Superlites on my racecar. They are fine calipers, but as noted, plan to rebuild them more frequently due to lack of dust seals on the pistons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stownsen914 View Post
My dad put the same calipers on the front of a '70 911 track car years ago with Carrera rotors, and they worked pretty well. If you get the piston sizes right in the Wilwoods (there are a few options), you can keep the brake bias where it needs to be too. He kept the stock rear calipers (it was a 911S), and bias was OK.
There's a big part of the issue right there, brake balance is key. The only problem w/ stock brakes is thermal issues on heavier and faster cars. Stock brake torque bias is just about perfect for sporting use on a stockish car. Suspension setup, wheel/tire and aero all complicate this. If you want to address the thermal issue, use better cooling, better fluid, better pads, better technique, lose weight. If changing hardware the front rotors are the parts that need to be enlarged, rears only for balance, then use what ever calipers work w/ the rotors and wheels.

Keep in mind that it's the tires that are the primary factor in how fast the car stops, the latest Performance Friction calipers and rotors from a Cup car won't make your car stop any faster than stock A/M's unless the tires are upgraded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stownsen914 View Post
Also, consider upgrading the master cylinder to a larger one. Wilwoods are 4 piston calipers, so there is more brake fluid displaced when you step on the pedal. I recall that on my parents' car the brake pedal was softer with the Wilwoods. I forget now, but I seem to recall that there was a 23mm Mercedes one that people used to use. Not sure what the options are these days.
Just because there are more pistons it doesn't mean the m/c needs to be changed, The driving factor here is the slave/master ratio. You want to keep the slave/master ratio in the range of ~40 to ~30, The lower the better for sporting use. The lower limit is what's physically comfortable for the driver to use for his longest stint, the high end limit(~45) is the rate of volume flow of fluid in a panic stop. Street cars tend to be at the higher end because the manufacturers have to provide for just about anyone to be able to drive no matter how frail.

At the higher end the pedal gets soft and spongy it requires less effort to generate the same brake torque. At the lower end the pedal is high and hard, perfect for better modulation.

Power brakes further complicate the issue, they will be better on cars w/ lower S/M ratios than on those w/ high ratios.
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Old 01-06-2017, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Verburg View Post
no!
That's what I thought.
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Old 01-06-2017, 08:28 AM
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For what it is worth,
Coleman racing has to series of calipers that looked interesting , and may be a consideration similar to what you guys want to put together with Wilwood components.

Like Willwood, they cater to US dimensioned components but the capabilities to do two-piece floating, two-piece solid, one piece solid casting etc. etc.

contact info :
Ricky Holley
Sales/Tech Support
Coleman Racing Products
N-1597 US-41
Menominee, MI 49858
800-221-1851 x 114
Fax 906-863-2665
ricky@colemanracing.com
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Old 01-06-2017, 09:27 AM
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Pay attention to everything that Bill says. Especially the part about front/rear bias.

Since this thread is basically about street cars it's mainly about wanting to spend money. When was the last time you really needed more braking on the street. Seriously

Once you start doing things like swapping calipers around you had best be prepared for a lot of testing. Or, a lot of trouble.


Just for fun - A 907 Caliper

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How Hot do Your Brakes Really Get?
Old 01-06-2017, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobluforu View Post
That's what I thought.
I think this is a bling project
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Old 01-06-2017, 10:40 AM
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StopTech is launching a 3-tiered series big brake kits designed specifically for pre-'90 F & G body cars w/ 3.5" struts. One of their first kits has been spotted on Magnus's recent silver SWB hotrod. Their kits are focused on 15" and 16" wheels that preserve correct front/rear bias, parking brakes, etc. Little info about these publicly yet but the info they've shared with me is quite interesting!
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Old 01-06-2017, 10:46 AM
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Really interesting discussion guys - hopefully a functional one will be released for the 911.


-Dmitry
Old 01-06-2017, 11:30 AM
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My fear is once they go to full kit status the cost goes up....I really want Turbo brakes but dont have the wallet. If I could get turbo for $1000 more I would do it but its more than that.

FWIW I want the thermal capacity for track not bling.

OP have you looked at the boxster caliper kits? look great, reasonable cost and a modern caliper with parts availability for a long time
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84 lime green back date (LWB 911R with RS rear flares) hot rod - absolute riot to drive!
RSR look hot rod, based on 75' SOLD
73 911t 3.0SC Hot rod Gulf Blue - Sold.
Old 01-06-2017, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elombard View Post
My fear is once they go to full kit status the cost goes up....I really want Turbo brakes but dont have the wallet. If I could get turbo for $1000 more I would do it but its more than that.

FWIW I want the thermal capacity for track not bling.

OP have you looked at the boxster caliper kits? look great, reasonable cost and a modern caliper with parts availability for a long time
Once again for track thermal improvement the rotor comes first, Since the Boxster calipers use 3.2 Carrera rotors, The better otion is to use 3.2 Carrera calipers, front only. Leave the rears alone, bias is unchanged, thermal performance is up, unlike when using Boxster calipers which screws up bias unless 3.2 Carrera rears are also used. and best of all m/c can stay the same or if you are a real die hard track guy you can still use the 23.8mm m/c(you will need a big leg for this)
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:39 PM
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bling bling! I am just in need of new calipers and looking for an affordable option on a new caliper as opposed to running another used one. Not looking to increase an performance just wanting to see and know if its possible to run wilwood, ap racing, endless, project mu or any caliper company really to give us pelicans a few options to consider.

Loving all the great info so far! Still dont know what rotor id need lol
Old 01-06-2017, 02:20 PM
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I would keep my stock calipers if if there was a way to stuff in thicker rotors.

Kind of thread jacking but something just occurred to me. I wonder if wilwood has a rotor ring that is the same diameter and thickness of a Carrera rotor and I could get Rebel Racing to make me up a rotor hat. Save a little weight and slightly better thermal capability...plus the cool factor of two piece rotors!!
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84 lime green back date (LWB 911R with RS rear flares) hot rod - absolute riot to drive!
RSR look hot rod, based on 75' SOLD
73 911t 3.0SC Hot rod Gulf Blue - Sold.
Old 01-06-2017, 03:35 PM
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Not sure why you guys feel a need to justify/defend your choices. It's your car, do what you want. Just do the proper research to make sure you get the setup that works. I talked to the Wilwood tech guys a few times when I was putting together the first brake system for my bus, they were always helpful.
Most of us would take a 930 setup in a heart beat it they weren't sooooooo expensive. I ran a 930 set up on our race car. To me the bias was off enough that I built a twin m/c set up. This was probably due to the difference in tire size.
If you do go with the 930 calipers, I recommend going with Rennsport's hats (?) and and 993 turbo rotors (no affiliation).
Bling is what keeps a number of these shops in business.
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:40 PM
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Great thread and watching carefully. I finally decided that the aluminum S calipers on my '72 just aren't enough any more. The inherent sponginess of the calipers isn't confidence inspiring although it will stop when you really stand on it. I talked to Steve a bit about his 930 conversion kit and while that is the ultimate for my '72 w/ 16" wheels and a 3.6L, I'm having a tough time justifying the cost. So I've been leaning toward carrera rotors and calipers even if they don't have the bling factor. It is also unlikely that I'll take this car to the track...I have a PCA E-stock car that manages fine with SC brakes, good pads, fluid, and cooling.

More options are better!
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Old 01-07-2017, 07:28 AM
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