"Budget" Singer 911

[wbfondren]

I'm sure we've all thought about it, trying to create our own Singer 911 at a "budget price."

But what would it take to do it properly? To make sure that the car looked the part and felt like it too. Obviously everything wouldn't be quite up to the Singer standard, but what would it take to get it close? What specific 911 would you start out with, and where would you go from there. From start to finish, every component, from the drivetrain to the interior. Could it be done?

(I'm secretly trying to start my perfect 911 project with some of the advice from this forum, so don't be too hard on the wallet! But be honest!)

[911SauCy]

A Singer is $400k++

In my opinion, to get something "close", you'd need to minimally achieve 50% of the character. Putting you at $200k for a baseline starting point.

[spyerx]

There will be many here that are substantially more expert than I am, but having poked into this topic a bit, assuming you want to go 964? This would be a very nice class car, but not at the level of singer. Have you seen one in person? They are really, really incredible.

Excellent condition donor: 40k+
Engine work: 40k
Tranny work: 15k
Body work: 20k
Paint: 15k
Interior: 20k
Suspension: 25k
Brakes: 10k
Reconditioning - everything: 20k
Misc stuff that you don't think of: 25k
$200-250

[DaveMcKenz]

The Singer seems like a complete package. You start with 500 pound weight loss, then double the power output, upgrade suspension and transmission. That's before you start on interior and other appearance items. To be economical, you would need to highlight certain features of the Singer, such as the seats, but you will have a hard time touching many of the other bases.
Good luck and welcome,
Dave

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by spyerx

Have you seen one in person? They are really, really incredible.

This part. In person, they're mind-blowingly beyond what you can take from a publication.

[McLaren-TAG]

Do you really want an Elvis Impersonator?

[Busta Rib]

My guestimate is that you can achieve 90% of the Singer "experience" for around $200K. The components, engine, interior, etc would obviously not match the quality of a Singer, but I think you could get close, especially if you built it yourself, and feel pretty good about the outcome and dollars spent. You'd have to start with a quality base car and go from there.

You could probably even achieve something close for even less if you eschewed paint, interior, and other aesthetics and just focused on the mechanicals and driving experience. That said, having a bespoke car made of the best ingredients is difficult to put a true value/price on. The sense of occasion, rarity, quality, provenance, and collectibility you get with a Singer is difficult to match. IMO, A Singer is worth every penny that it sells for.

[DaveMcKenz]

You are correct, Busta. If, and that's a huge if, you can afford the price of admission, you will probably not lose money over time.
Dave

[168glhs1986]

What would be the resale value of a home built Budget Singer?

With a real Singer I would imagine the resale of a lightly used Singer is still pretty high. If anything they may appreciate.

Are there any records of a used Singer being sold?

Build yourself an outlaw 911 instead.

[RichardNew]

This would be an economic disaster. That may not matter to you though.

A lot of people here have spent a bunch of money on their cars and watched the values drop. That's really not important to them though.

Most of the clones are sold for about half of what the owners have put into them. If you put the money into a restoration you might get a little more ROI. I stress the word little.

Whatever decision you make you have deal with the economic consequences. It's not a decision that can be taken lightly.

Richard Newton
Storing You Collector Cars

[wbfondren]

I guess I'll rephrase my question. Because obviously we all know that the Singer is most likely the greatest 911 you can buy, but not many can buy it. With that in mind, I'm sure some of our thinking for our projects are shaped by the look and feel of the Singer without even knowing it.

Now I'm not saying I want to directly clone a Singer just for that fact, throw fake badges on and look like one of the lucky few. I do not and would never want to have an Elvis Impersonator, I want a quality 911.

I want a car that is extremely fun to drive (that doesn't just push the notion of pure speed, but the sensation of speed and all that comes with it), a car that looks great with a clean body and clean paint (but doesn't have to have leather in the frunk and around the engine bay), and has a great, high quality interior.

I don't need a car that is going to be the fastest around a track (no crazy weight reduction or Jack Olsen wings), but I want to be able to take it there, have fun, and look great in the process.

Now, what would THAT take?

[Last911]

Originally Posted by wbfondren

Now, what would THAT take?

In a 911? Probably 40-50K minimum.

[blucille]

see the list above from spyrex, maybe you can cut some corners, but the suspension, brakes and motor are probably required....purchase price is fairly predictable these days...so, pick and choose what you want from the list, maybe you don't want to backdate a g50 or 915 career, you'll save some money, but all in, I still think the bottom line is 100k absolute minimum.

[Jonny H]

Originally Posted by 911SauCy

This part. In person, they're mind-blowingly beyond what you can take from a publication.

Been for a canyon blast in one, not just a pretty thing, performance, grip, poise is incredible!

[rswannabe]

What is it you are trying to achieve? Just the performance? It can be done for less than $100k with what is essentially a stripped out track car with trick suspension, motor, and brakes. The look could also be replicated for another $100k. But what you won't have is all the super trick design work, carbon fiber body work, bespoke detail pieces, and what is essentially a brand new car.

I have not seen a Singer in person yet, but I've spent a lot of time building my car and can begin to appreciate level of time and attention to detail that goes into each one, on the order of 5,000 man hours is my understanding. You cannot short cut that kind of time and effort if you want that kind of quality. If you had the skills to do yourself everything the Singer craftsmen do, and you only valued your labor at $20/hour (insanely cheap for that level of craftsmanship), you still have $100k worth of LABOR ALONE, without getting into all the parts, materials, and not to mention the base car to start with.

[rswannabe]

For reference purposes, this is my car. It was never my goal to copy a Singer. Rather I was just building my own dream car, but I am happy to report it has on occasion been mistaken for a Singer. However, I know it is nowhere NEAR that level of quality, fit, finish, or performance. BUT my car is no slouch in the performance department, is truly a blast and a joy to drive, and gives me immense pleasure whether pushing it hard or just tooling around. So in that way, it is like a poor man's Singer.

[168glhs1986]

Nice! So maybe you should build his car? How much invested?

Can you replicate that for $100k including the cost of the car?

[DaveMcKenz]

Brooke, your car is gorgeous!!
You should be very proud.
Thanks
Dave

[rswannabe]

I've owned my car and been building it to what it is now for eleven years. I do not have a total accounting of my costs and frankly it would not help anyway. I've done a lot of the work myself and many of the cool parts and unique bits I acquired over the last decade and they would cost multiples now of what I paid for them. My rough guess is I have $50k net in my car at this point. But that includes buying a nice '69 911E with a fresh factory 2.2S MFI motor and completely "done" suspension for $16.5k. I don't think you could get that for much less than $80k in this market.

Starting from scratch in this market, even using an impact bumper car as a starting point, I think I'd be hard pressed to replicate my car for less than $100k. And as much as I love my car, it is no Singer. Not even close.

[jeffbottman]

Here's a heretical thought ... Singerize a 1969 Camaro ... lots cheaper I bet, even with a new 500HP aluminum engine / 6 speed etc ...