California smog: '95 3.6 in an '84

[Tremelune]

Well. It looks like I'm moving to California in the next year, and it will take a great deal of hardship before I will relinquish my engine-swapped 911. I'm trying to figure out what my options are for maintaining registration in California for years/decades.

The car is an '84 M491 coupe with a 3.6 out of a 1995 993 (OBD1). No effort was made to retain smog equipment. There is no catalytic converter, the intake is aftermarket, the exhaust is a mix of metal. I see four options:

Bring it up to 1995 standards

This sounds expensive and risky. I don't actually know what's missing or what would need to be present. To fit 993 mufflers will require moving the oil tank to the front of the car. Installing a stock airbox would involve, at a minimum, some "massaging". I think I would need to wire in a Service Engine Soon light and possibly an OBD port? It sounds like, even if I did everything right, I could still get an ornery CARB referee who just fails me because he doesn't like my face, and I would wind up with more weight in the rear and maybe less power.

E-ROD LS swap

I have no problem with putting an LS motor in this car, but boy would it kill resale on a rather rare model. I suspect that I could get a fresh, sorted LS3 in for "free" by recouping the cost by selling the 3.6. The annoyance here is that I'd really have to baby the 915, or do something costly like get a G50 or Subaru box put in. Has anyone ever done an LS swap in any car that was smoggable? I fear it might not be as easy as buying the E-ROD parts and using them during the swap.

Something nefarious

I'm happy to break the law here, and I'm happy to spend money to do so, if there is some level of guarantee. I'm all for saving the environment, but these laws don't do much for it, and the way they're implemented is arbitrary and absurd. I expect my next daily-driver will be electric, but I digress. I might sit on my East Coast registration for as long as I can, but one day something will have to change, so I figure it's wise to ask these questions early.

Sell

Absolute last resort. The only smoggable cars I can think of to replace this one with would be an '89 930 or a great '75 build. Both seem like $60-80k endeavors to me for a driver. That these amounts of money seem reasonable to me for a single automobile is evidence that I've lost my mind, and it's much harder to swallow than putting the same amount of money into a car over a decade or two...

[Techno Duck]

I wouldnt LS swap it. Believe me, i love an LS swapped car (See my sig) but getting an LS swapped g-body 911 to pass in CA would be a challenge. This is because everything emissions related has to be installed, this includes, cats, charcoal canister and headers. Space would be a big issue, in particular with the exhaust.

Just my experience...I smogged my '88 a few months back, guy looked under the deck lid and sorta shrugged his shoulders. Did not check anything under the car. I did have a cat on it. Car passed the sniffer and i was on my way. My engine looks completely stock, but the guy didnt really seem to care regardless. Change your exhaust to something with a cat and muffler. Revert back to a stock chip or even have a new chip burned that is specifically for emissions. Smog the car here and if it passes, your pretty much golden. The DMV VIN verification is just a DMV worker that looks at the VIN on the chassis and checks the emissions tag under the deck lid. I think going through the referee process should be a last resort.

Ive weighed the options extensivley because i considered properly registering my LS swapped '88 951 here when i moved from NY. Feel free to PM me if you want my 2-cents .

[wayne robson]

tremelune, go to CA , enjoy your trip ,dont even worry about your 911, take it with you
take your time after you get there to check out smog stations etc,.You probably think
what do i know from Australia,but i lived there 10 years, i had smogs with Porsche, jags,
Alfa Romeo, chevys, buicks, ask any Alfa owner how hard it is to get smog.
My reason is although ,its all computerised and electrical testing ,smog stations do vary.
I found that smaller older testing stations out in suburbs, rather in larger city areas are better to used, have a great trip.

[Evan Fullerton]

Getting a '95 993 motor that is in good shape to pass smog is not hard. Passing the visual and getting it officially refereed as a legal motor swap is a bit more involved but is totally doable and certainly easier then putting in a LS3.

993 Cat, no mufflers, on 993 heat exchangers with a good gas cap, stock air box (with the lid cut so it fits), and the appearance of a functioning charcoal canister should be all of what you need to pass the visual on the actual test. As for the referee process, i'm not sure how deep they will go but getting the check engine light to work should not be that hard. You will need the air injection system hooked up even if it does not function to satisfy the referee I would guess though.

[McLovin]

And a working check engine light and system.

[rbogh901]

Originally Posted by Tremelune

I'm trying to figure out what my options are for maintaining registration in California for years/decades.

There have been guys who have had their swaps CARB approved, and rightfully so. A reasonable 3.6 runs very clean compared to earlier motors. A swap like yours is an upgrade in both performance and emissions.

[Noah930]

I'm told there are 6 counties in CA that do not require smogging. Of course, those tend to be rural areas, so you're not likely going to be moving there. But you could always get a PO Box or buy a vacation place in one of those locations.

[Joe Bob]

https://smogcheck.ca.gov/pubwebquery/Ziparea/ZipLookup.aspx

[Joe Bob]

https://smogcheck.ca.gov/pdf/Program_Map.pdfhttps://smogcheck.ca.gov/pdf/Program_Map.pdf

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Noah930

I'm told there are 6 counties in CA that do not require smogging. Of course, those tend to be rural areas, so you're not likely going to be moving there. But you could always get a PO Box or buy a vacation place in one of those locations.

The problem with this^^ for the OP is that even in those counties, the car needs to be smog tested upon initial registration in California or change of ownership. Once registered, there is no further testing.

There is one other way I have heard of, directly from someone who did it. He had a legitimate address (warehouse or airport hangar) located in a very rural/desert area in which there was no smog station within, I believe, 30 miles. He registered his car to that address and told DMV that there was no way he could smog the car as there was no facility. He was given a waiver and has not had a smog check since.

To the OP. Since your car is an 84, you may wish to try to smog it as an 84 rather than according to the engine year. Yes, you're supposed to declare it according to the engine year, but you are dealing with techs that are not likely to know the details of the engine, especially if it is tested in a more remote area. Outfit the engine with the basic smog equipment for an 84, like a cat, so it passes visual. According to most, a properly tuned 3.6 should run cleaner than an 84 and, if so, you should pass the required testing standards for an 84 which are less stringent than a 95.

[Tremelune]

This is helpful and ultimately heartening, as it seems I can at least give it whirl in a few different ways.

I'm confident I can pass any sniffer test by throwing cats on there...I'm much more worried about someone raising a stink over missing oxygen sensors, custom exhaust system, or cut up airbox, or some component that doesn't have the right "sticker" or one I never knew existed...

What does CA use to determine an address for what type of smog check you need? Is it literally just which smog station or DMV branch you drive to? I'd be happy to drive to any county in California biennially. I know from experience that California will register a car at any in-state address you give them, the only stipulation being that the title will be mailed there.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Tremelune

This is helpful and ultimately heartening, as it seems I can at least give it whirl in a few different ways.

I'm confident I can pass any sniffer test by throwing cats on there...I'm much more worried about someone raising a stink over missing oxygen sensors, custom exhaust system, or cut up airbox, or some component that doesn't have the right "sticker" or one I never knew existed...

What does CA use to determine an address for what type of smog check you need? Is it literally just which smog station or DMV branch you drive to? I'd be happy to drive to any county in California biennially. I know from experience that California will register a car at any in-state address you give them, the only stipulation being that the title will be mailed there.

The address to which you register the car, basically the zip code, determines the type of smog check you need--Enhanced, Basic, Change of Ownership. It doesn't matter which DMV office you apply, it matters where the car will "reside", thus the address and zip for the registration to which the title and registration will be mailed. To keep things running smoothly, it may be better to go to a DMV in a county/zip code that your registration address is located.

Word of caution here. If, for some reason, you are sent to a CARB facility or referee, all bets are off. There is usually no reason why you should unless you are trying to register a car that is "abnormal", like an 84 with a 95 engine swap. If the registration appears to be routine, the DMV will do the paperwork and you'll be advised to get the car tested and any facility. This is where your selection of facility plays a part. If the techs are savvy, suspect a swap, or notice obvious visual faults, they'll refer you to CARB. Your concern about the appearance of the engine is well founded, especially if a lay person can recognize a cut-up air box or missing components. If you can make it look like a stock 84 engine compartment or, at least, and unmolested engine compartment, you may be o.k.

Here's a question that I don't recall being answered. Does you car have the Federal emission stickers still attached? If those are missing, that is almost a certain rejection and referral to CARB.

[Tremelune]

Gotcha. It looks like it'll always be at least somewhat circumstantial.

Not that this is directly related to my situation (since I need to pass smog for initial registration), but why doesn't everyone just get a PO box in Death Valley and never deal with smog again?

[bike2ride95]

Originally Posted by McLovin

Nope, not true.
Even with historical plates, '76 and newer still require smog.

Oh really? okay! My brother's 79SC has historical plates and no smog
but like I said..."ssshhhh" You ask too many questions, you get denied. ssssh

[1979-930]

Originally Posted by Tremelune

Gotcha. It looks like it'll always be at least somewhat circumstantial.

Not that this is directly related to my situation (since I need to pass smog for initial registration), but why doesn't everyone just get a PO box in Death Valley and never deal with smog again?

Because a PO Box won't work. You need a physical address. I looked into the rural county registration years ago and there were a couple hurdles. I believe one was my license had to be the same address. Its been a while so I don't remember exactly.
I just install all the smog crap for one day ever two years for two different cars. It sucks!
And if you dislike the BS emissions laws get ready for disliking a lot of other BS! But the weather is nice

North or South CA?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by bike2ride95

Oh really? okay! My brother's 79SC has historical plates and no smog
but like I said..."ssshhhh" You ask too many questions, you get denied. ssssh

My brother's wife's cousin heard it from Donald Trump so it can't be fake news.

[Tremelune]

If the federal emissions sticker is under the decklid, that is long gone. The decklid I have is not original and has no stickers to speak of. Presumably you can't just go buy one? Seems weird, considering how often people swap decklids around.

I'm happy to pay the sunshine tax. There are 3-4 months of good weather in NYC, and everyone here is tense and yelling. There isn't much room to park a skateboard, much less a car. Plenty of overreaching laws, too...It was a lot of fun for a decade, but now it's just not worth the cost to live in a shoebox.

The plan is LA, most likely Echo Park.

[Tremelune]

Well then. Store for emissions stickers:

aasesales .com /collections/porsche-911-decals-stickers?page=2

[Matt Monson]

A carb ref won't look for a sticker, he will look it up on his computer. You really want to hope you don't get there in the first place, which required making it look stock for the smog station.

[75 911s]

Trade me for my 75. Problem solved. :-D Does this mean you aren't backdating?