While You're In There - Clutch job gone crazy

[spyerx]

Thought I'd post this for the crew. I compiled a pretty extensive list from posts here to do my 'while in there' engine drop. Unfortunately mid-move, super busy with work, so I'm having my shop do the labor.

This started with a clutch job. The car I bought is a time capsule, all original, everything works, and thanks to Draco a few months ago, running clean and passing smog! But, the clutch was really really notchy in action. It works fine, but pickup is high and action bad, but no slip.

I did a major refresh when I first got the car almost 2 years ago. Shocks, brake lines, all fluids, brakes, plugs/wires/distributor, belts, fuel filter, etc etc.

I didn't get any records with the car, but you could tell it was well maintained.

So it was time. Since the car is coming up on 30 years old, motor drop, clean clean clean, all fuel lines, all breather hoses, all vacuum hoses, necessary oil lines, valve adjust, replace everything in the clutch, shifter bushings, intake gaskets, oil tensioner lines, timing box gaskets, fuel filter, pressure regulator, damper, service injectors, triable of death, oil cooler sealing rings, the crank/pulse sensor, gusset engine carrier, zinc plate ALL yellow metal, powder coat tins, new fan, fan housing refresh, oil/filter, new rear drop links,full inspection, etc etc.

Only a couple minor surprises (or extras I needed to do) as they have worked through the car. Was going to paint the valve cover and timing covers but we put them in the sonic cleaner and they look awesome. Nice patina.

And we found why the clutch was crappy. Original! And the rubber one. No mod to the bell housing. And, the needle bearings in the shift fork were DONE and notching the fork shaft really well.

Those rubber lines? Well multiple vacuum and breather lines had cracking. The fuel lines were OK. But it was time. So this is time/effort/$ well spent in my view. Hopefully this lasts me a few years!!!

Its just awesome to see a car this old ripped apart knowing it's been well cared for over the years, even though i have no records prior to my ownership. Which reminds me, I need to call all the air cooled shops in San Diego and find out where it was serviced... it lived all but 2 years down there...!!!!

So if anyone has something to "add" to my while in there list... feel free! :-)

Anyway, some pics:

[spyerx]

[spyerx]

[Tori]

Damn, this could have been written about my car.... same story here.

Doesn't look like you split the case. How did you get the fan shroud clamp thing off ?

Nice work btw,... she's cleaning up nicely.

oh, and where/who did your fuel lines ?

[spyerx]

Originally Posted by Tori

Damn, this could have been written about my car.... same story here.
Doesn't look like you split the case. How did you get the fan shroud clamp thing off ?
Nice work btw,... she's cleaning up nicely.
oh, and where/who did your fuel lines ?

Motor not opened top or bottom, just pulled off the intake system. Fan shroud clamp, not sure!?
Fuel lines are all Griffiths. Except for the long metal formed return line which is Porsche. These are just the rubber/metal engine lines. We'll do the fuel pump rubber short line, and the lines in the tunnel are that plastic that is fine (I have no fuel smell at all in the car or frunk).
Anything that can go in the sonic cleaner is going in there, and spent some time cleaning up the motor, although it wasn't bad.

[Tori]

The housing that is around the fan. There's a strap that clamps around it. That's what i was talking about.
What is Griffiths. Not familiar. I was hoping to use the guy here on the site everyone seems to recommend, but i cannot get him to email me back. So, looking for alternatives.

[spyerx]

Originally Posted by Tori

The housing that is around the fan. There's a strap that clamps around it. That's what i was talking about.
What is Griffiths. Not familiar. I was hoping to use the guy here on the site everyone seems to recommend, but i cannot get him to email me back. So, looking for alternatives.

These are very nicely made lines. I opted for these over OEM/factory due to the quality/reputation he has here and rennlist. I was going to redo my lines, there are a few shops local that do it (Socal) but just decided to use these.

https://griffiths.com/porsche/engine/porsche-911-fuel-lines/

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Tori

What is Griffiths. Not familiar. I was hoping to use the guy here on the site everyone seems to recommend, but i cannot get him to email me back. So, looking for alternatives.

Tori, one option is to take your old lines into a local hydraulic/hose shop and they will "re-hose" them for you using the original fittings (new hose and crimps, obviously). There is an old school shop near me that I've used for over 20 years for many types of hoses (high pressure CIS fuel lines, a/c hoses, hydraulic hoses for a forklift, etc.) and they do excellent work. I bet there is a place like that near you, too.

[911tracker85]

I had Ken Cummings make all of mine. excellent work. think his PP name is boxstergt.

wish I had that much space and shelving to be more organized. all my parts are bagged / labeled and in big plastic boxes....

good luck on your project.

[Tori]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Tori, one option is to take your old lines into a local hydraulic/hose shop and they will "re-hose" them for you using the original fittings (new hose and crimps, obviously). There is an old school shop near me that I've used for over 20 years for many types of hoses (high pressure CIS fuel lines, a/c hoses, hydraulic hoses for a forklift, etc.) and they do excellent work. I bet there is a place like that near you, too.

Ya, we do have a place nearby that i could use. I was holding out to send them to the guy here every one likes to use thinking that would be a better option. I like the idea of sending them to someone that is recommended and that has done lots of them over a place that probably never has, but could.

I'm sure that's the way i'll go now though.

[spyerx]

Injectors back, gusseted the engine carrier it's off to coat, coming back together.

[spyerx]

Unfortunately the plater we used did a crap job on the metal bits so off they go to the regular guy :-( This guy delayed us by 3 weeks.
Powder coating of the tins and engine carrier came back looking excellent.
Metal is cleaned up awesome (fan, shroud, valve covers, timing box covers).
Just waiting for the Zinc plated metal and it's back together.
Knock on wood no surprises yet (head studs, valves, seepage, all GOOD)
LOTS of rubber lines were rock hard and had cracking. No 'leaks' though.
The vacuum booster line was an SOB!

[famoroso]

Greetings spyerx,

The car I bought wasn't a time capsule in that it needed some TLC and a handful of items easily returned to original (although I'm letting the in-period aero mirror addition stand for now), everything works, and thanks to Steve Wong running strong! But... my clutch suffers similarly. Pickup actually couldn't be higher and very poor / bad action. Similarly, no slipping though. There's also a metal whirring noise (throwout bearing?) upon clutch actuation. Anywho, replacement starts the weekend after the LaJolla concours. So, I'll start amassing parts.

Apart from the narrative of your original post, do you happen to have a formal checklist of what all you've done / are planning to do as part of your "clutch job?" Given my imminent clutch replacement, I would like to consider a master "while in there list." I likely won't do as much as you, but would like to at least consider the comprehensive list.

Also, what are folks doing these days, the bell housing modification or using the bronze bushed fork shaft for the non-modified bell housing? I don't know if my housing has been modified, but at 59k miles, I'm willing to bet not.

Thx,
Frank

[livetopedal]

Originally Posted by famoroso

Greetings spyerx,


Also, what are folks doing these days, the bell housing modification or using the bronze bushed fork shaft for the non-modified bell housing? I don't know if my housing has been modified, but at 59k miles, I'm willing to bet not.

Thx,
Frank

Hi Frank,
My clutch was replaced last year at 112k after never having had the update. Needles to say the bearings were shot. Anyway, my mechanic said the bronze bushings are the way to go if your G50 has not already had the bell housing modified.
Clutch feels amazing and is much quieter.


Spyerx, i love your stance in the first picture. I really need to lower my '89 a bit.

[jlex]

Yeah, those needle bearings didn't look good on the clutch fork. How many miles were on that car? Have 36,000 miles on my '88 and am wondering just what mine are looking like now (have the original clutch).

[spyerx]

Originally Posted by famoroso

...But... my clutch suffers similarly. Pickup actually couldn't be higher and very poor / bad action. Similarly, no slipping though. There's also a metal whirring noise (throwout bearing?) upon clutch actuation. Anywho, replacement starts the weekend after the LaJolla concours. So, I'll start amassing parts.

Apart from the narrative of your original post, do you happen to have a formal checklist of what all you've done / are planning to do as part of your "clutch job?" Given my imminent clutch replacement, I would like to consider a master "while in there list." I likely won't do as much as you, but would like to at least consider the comprehensive list.

Also, what are folks doing these days, the bell housing modification or using the bronze bushed fork shaft for the non-modified bell housing? I don't know if my housing has been modified, but at 59k miles, I'm willing to bet not.

So, on my car, the clutch was worn, but not to the point of slipping. So there were 2 issues: high engagement, and notchy action. The wear is causing the hight engagement, the notchy action was the needle bearings. In my pictures you can see the shaft, but it was all greasy so I didn't move it for the pic, the other side of the fork shaft is thrashed, and the bearings fell apart when it was removed.

Now, if you're getting a whirring noise, that is most likely the throw out bearing. Notchy action on these can also be cause by fork wear against he throw out bearing and the guide tube. I'm on clutch job #3 on my GT3 which the setup is nearly identical to these cars due to a batch of bad TOB and guide tubes that wore very prematurely. Knock on wood last one has lasted 1.5 yrs of track use.

I'll post a list later. If you PM me your email address I can send you the spreadsheet we've been tracking. I need to review with the shop when i pickup the car and see what else they found, but I think I got all of it. It's long, but I don't think unreasonable.

The list of parts aside the clutch parts is long but not big $. Finding all the hosing was a bit of a pain. I wanted to use the original german cloth host and getting all the sizes required buying from Pelican, Porsche, and a few other suppliers.

The PET is great here, it lists the hose sizing and lengths. Oh, and getting the right Otiker clamps too.

Originally Posted by livetopedal

Hi Frank,
My clutch was replaced last year at 112k after never having had the update. Needles to say the bearings were shot. Anyway, my mechanic said the bronze bushings are the way to go if your G50 has not already had the bell housing modified.

Clutch feels amazing and is much quieter.

Spyerx, i love your stance in the first picture. I really need to lower my '89 a bit.

Thanks. At some point I'll probably raise it 1/4" or so f/r. It looks awesome tho :-) Just have to be careful on driveways. Never have an issue on the street normally.

My techs said same, they prefer the bronze bushings for these.

There are 2 options:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/0826/POR_0826_TCLUTC_pg4.htm#item18

We opted for the Rauch & Spiegel kit that uses the bronze bushings vs. the needle bearings.
If you opt to use the kit with the needle bearings you will need to modify your bell housing to accommodate (drill it)

Originally Posted by jlex

Yeah, those needle bearings didn't look good on the clutch fork. How many miles were on that car? Have 36,000 miles on my '88 and am wondering just what mine are looking like now (have the original clutch).

My car has 89,000 miles on it, it had 84k on it when I got it. The action didn't get worse, but it was time.

[spyerx]

The "PAGE" numbers in the attached refer to the PET pages.

[spyerx]

Shiny bits are back. Powder coating down. Now it goes back together.

[McLovin]

Looks like injectors done by RCI, ours were probably there at the same time.

[spyerx]

Originally Posted by McLovin

Looks like injectors done by RCI, ours were probably there at the same time.

This is the shop used for the injector clean, rebuild, flow test and balance.

RC Fuel Injection
1717 Torrance Blvd.
Torrance, CA 90501