140lb 300HP motor

[Mukilteo911]

Have you seen the Freedom Motor ? 300 Hp, 4 wankel engine weighing 140 lbs, 26X11X11 in size! Has only 4% of the emissions of a regular motor. 6500rpm max. I saw this a freedom-motors.com

That would be real nice to have that low weight and power. It mentions being having fuel ecomomy, but does not give specifics. It looks like the only car that has one in it is a hybrid. They offer it with carbs of injection and it can use many types of fuel.

I have a call into them, to see what one costs out of curiosity.

Oh the lust for power!

[Schuey]

let us know what you hear

[TRE Cup]

sounds like another Dale engine story. Post us on what you find out

[David]

This makes me wonder if anyone's put an RX7 engine in a 911. I've seen them in 914's.

[TRE Cup]

There was a blue 911 "turbo look" at Pomona a few years back. it had a RX 7 motor in it. It didn't sound too cool- a short muffler on a rotary is a recipe for ear plugs or hearing damage. Most Mazda rotaries are easily tuned for 180-200 hp. After that they get kinda edgy. They are not big on torque either. sure there are the turbo versions, but then the $$ investment gets up there
There is also a black 914 running around with a rotary in it- that was kinda cool. interesting alternative to rebuilding a pancake motor ,and you have some room to snake an exhaust around (so it is quieter)
Now , if you could find a cheap racing 3 rotor, you would have something......

[jluetjen]

There was recently a rotary engined 911(912?) with "935" body work on it in Ebay. I'm ashamed to say that it wasn't to far from here. It did look a little like a "worse case" scenario project car: Ill-conceived concept, sub-standard parts and poor execution. Aside from that if I remember the guy was claiming at least $30K in the car. Needless to say that without the help of BJ's floor walkers, bidding topped out at $5100.

Where is Amie Starr when you need her?



BTW - A 300 HP 140 pound 6500 RPM motor. A good 1000 CC motorcycle engine gets upwards to 180 HP at twice that RPM. Admittedly extra capacity (air) doesn't weigh much, but still the solid parts would need to be beefed up quite a bit to withstand that those sorts of forces. Something doesn't add up...

I guess I'll check it out.

[speeder]

I bought my 915 ltd. slip trans from a guy parting out an early 911/Mazda rotary project. He built it for street racing, ala "Fast and the Furious", or Juan R., it certainly wasn't the worst Porsche desecration I've ever seen. He actually made the car a lot lighter and better balanced, (not that he cared much about handling), it had an RX-7 turbo motor in it, claimed ~300HP. I drove it, (to check trans for purchase), it was definitely faster than a stock 930. Like Dave said, not very torquey, but spooled up quickly and scorching fast. I thought that he was on to something, makes a lot more sense than a pig V-8 or Jaun's high-dollar, (and slower), "race car".

[jluetjen]

Mukilteo911
I was just checking out their site. They are claiming 120 HP 2 rotor engine weighing 120 lbs in a 20 x 21 x 13 inch size. That sounds a little more reasonable. Keep in mind that the 4-rotor Le Mans winning Mazda engine was most likely putting out at least twice that at something more like 8000 - 10000 RPM. Freedom is also claiming 2hp per pound of engine which compares to about 1.15 HP/pound for a motorcyle engine (including the transmission). I can't seem to find my 911 engine weights right now. If you start to map the engines next to each other you'll find that none of them seems to be defying the laws of physics.

Looking at the company history, it seems like it is a decendant from OMC's (Aka: Johnson and Evenrude Outboard motors) rotor engine group. Reading between the lines, they seem to have the non-automotive licenses for rotory engines. Obviously Mazda (aka:Ford) have the automotive market. I don't expect that you will get any revolutionary step up in engine performance compared to a Mazda engine. They quite likely have developed their own particular tweeks, but Mazda has invested 100's of millions of dollars in their developments too.

As you read further into the web site, you can see that they are positioning themselves against 2-cycles for non-automotive uses such as boats, industrial and other places were comparatively dirty 2-cycles are used now. Quote:"...when compared with industrial four-stroke piston engines and recreational two-stroke engines." Most people aren't aware of how dirty 2-cycles are. Just spend some time in an asian country swarming with 2-cycle motorcyles and you will get a better appreciation of the results of burning an oil-rich mixture in a relatively low compression engine. Ugh!

[ttweed]

Originally posted by Mukilteo911
I have a call into them, to see what one costs out of curiosity.

From their FAQ:
Your Rotapower engine looks like it would be a good replacement for my Mazda “13B” engine. Can I bolt one of these into my car? How much would you charge me today for one of these engines?

Answer: The Rotapower engine is not a direct substitute for the Mazda 13B engine. At some point in the future we hope to offer our Rotapower engines in various configurations to boat yards and other marine repair facilities, but at this time we are nearing the end of our Engine Test Program, where selected companies were invited to integrate the Rotapower engine into their products and we got feedback, which we incorporated, into the design. We plan to have production facilities operational soon. Costs presently start at $10,000 for a 530cc engine, and go up depending on the desired configuration. As we enter into volume production we will move towards our target prices. We hope to be able to offer the 530cc engine at or below $2,500 each. Multi-rotor engines will be approximately 30% more for each additional rotor.

So, it looks to me like they are still on the steep side of their development curve, and that they are a long way off from having a practical, lightweight substitute for the Mazda rotary here.

The only reference I could find on their site to a 300hp engine was in their .pdf brochure, which said that a 4-rotor in a high performance mode could make that much power. Considering their price statement above, that motor would currently cost you $20K!

Not that ANY rotary would make a good Porsche powerplant, but the Bridgeported Mazda 12A motors used in the hottest CSRs were making upwards of 250HP in full race trim a few years ago, threatening to make the Cosworth BDDs obsolete, so the SCCA cut them back to 34mm venturis . They still make about 230hp even with the restriction on the intakes.

The superbike guys have been taking the Suzuki Hayabusa 1300cc engine and turbocharging it and getting in excess of 300hp for a lot less money. I've been toying with the idea of swapping one of those into my FF chassis for a little white-knuckle excitement!

[Mukilteo911]

I got my spec from the original post from the PDf they posted. But as someone saw they are way to expensive. I really liked they're specs for emissions "4% of a 4 stroke ". I keep thinking that someday the SUV haters will catch on to how much gas our hotrods eat and our not so perfect emissions and then try to outlaw them. Well I guess that is actually scheduled to happen in Los Angeles California sometime. Although I do not know how the LA laws will affect older cars.

Motors are so cool, so many ways to make things go. I liked the flying car they use the motor in,,,,Jetsons in our time. If I could only fly my 911.

All in fun.

[HawgRyder]

I have to tell you guys that a stock Mazda rotary engine is NOT light!!
I run a 12A engine...and it weighs a ton...well about 420 lbs with the necessary add-ons.
They do put out power though...and if built correctly (like mine) with lots of hard chroming in the rotor area..it will live a long time....mine has over 300K on it and still going strong.
Bob