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Euro ride height question

What is distance between the tire & the fender on a Euro ride height setup?
Old 06-17-2017, 06:25 PM
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Depends on tire size, and whether you are talking true euro height (as per factory specs) or what people today call "euro height" which is not clearly defined but definitely lower than the factory specs for non-USA cars.
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Old 06-17-2017, 08:58 PM
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This is a euro car so I guess it's euro height.

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Old 06-17-2017, 09:18 PM
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True euro height is the way the factory set all Carreras from 1984 on. However, the term euro height is meaningless since any 911 that has been lowered is called euro height since nobody seems to care about factory settings when ride height is concerned.


Last edited by stlrj; 06-18-2017 at 12:18 AM..
Old 06-18-2017, 12:04 AM
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Here's one of many old threads:

Ride height - factory measurement method

As stlrj said, all cars '84 and later were 'Euro'. The way to measure is covered in Wayne's 101 book if you have it but basically you want to measure the distance between the torsion bar center and the wheel hub center in mm.
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Last edited by tirwin; 06-18-2017 at 06:26 AM..
Old 06-18-2017, 06:22 AM
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This is funny, I was researching ride height extensively yesterday...The factory specs I have do not match the fender "specs" I measured on my car, and I came upon these old threads detailing the discrepancy...The exact same posters are in this thread, so thank you for providing empirical data to help dispel myths...I too have become evangelized.

myslateblue911, what year is your car? Here are the specs (pulled from this post), measured from the center of the torsion bar to the center of the wheel hub (not the fender lips):



Depending on the tires on your car and any manufacturing discrepancies, you'll probably wind up with fender heights 26.5" front and 26" rear as the factory height.

Going lower than this will compromise ride quality and handling, because while your center of gravity will decrease, it is more important to maintain suspension geometry.

If a certain look is what you're after, and the stock height seems too high for you, lower it to whatever you want. There are no specs, though 25.5" front and 25" rear is common. The front fender is usually about a half inch higher than the rear, though all of this can change a bit after an alignment and corner balance, which you should always do after a ride height change.

Last edited by Tremelune; 06-18-2017 at 07:20 AM..
Old 06-18-2017, 07:07 AM
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Am I correct in assuming that the Turbo and M491 cars went by the same specs for their year?
Old 06-18-2017, 07:19 AM
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I wish I had a picture of the geometry of my car from several years ago before I refreshed the suspension. It had been lowered without any bump steer spacers and when you looked at the tie rod end connection to the A-arm it was pretty obvious that the geometry was not intended to be that way.

I am running raised spindles with 17's and ER adjustable tie rod ends to correct the geometry. So, yea... that is not everyone's cup of tea. I do love the fact that I get full suspension travel when I hit a big bump though.
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Old 06-18-2017, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tremelune View Post
This is funny, I was researching ride height extensively yesterday...The factory specs I have do not match the fender "specs" I measured on my car, and I came upon these old threads detailing the discrepancy...The exact same posters are in this thread, so thank you for providing empirical data to help dispel myths...I too have become evangelized.

myslateblue911, what year is your car? Here are the specs (pulled from this post), measured from the center of the torsion bar to the center of the wheel hub (not the fender lips):



Depending on the tires on your car and any manufacturing discrepancies, you'll probably wind up with fender heights 26.5" front and 26" rear as the factory height.

Going lower than this will compromise ride quality and handling, because while your center of gravity will decrease, it is more important to maintain suspension geometry.

If a certain look is what you're after, and the stock height seems too high for you, lower it to whatever you want. There are no specs, though 25.5" front and 25" rear is common. The front fender is usually about a half inch higher than the rear, though all of this can change a bit after an alignment and corner balance, which you should always do after a ride height change.
Tremelune - I have an 83' SC Coupe. I purchase the car last year and was told by the previous owner that one of the mods done to the car was lowering it to a Euro ride height. The stance seemed "just right". It had 16" Fuchs (6's & 7's) on it that had been polished (a look I did not prefer).

I just replaced those with 15" Fuchs (7's & 8's) with an RSR finish done by Harvey Weidman, shod with Toyo R1R (205/50/15 & 225/45/15).

While I am very pleased with the look of my refinished 15" Fuchs and the Toyo R1R's
There now appears to be more of a gap between the fender and the tire. This may just be a consequence of having a smaller wheel.

My question is driven more by aesthetics than anything else. I wish I would have measured the distance between the fender & the top of the tire before I removed my old set of wheels & tires.

Any idea on that?
Old 06-18-2017, 11:36 AM
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The previous owner lowered the car to a lie...

I'm kidding, but yeah—if the overall diameter of your tires changes, so will the gap between them and the fender.

If you want to change that gap, you're talking about reindexing the rear torsion bars, aligning the car, and getting a corner balance. Zero dollars if you do it all yourself, maybe a few hundred for the alignment and corner balance, over a grand if a shop does it all.
Old 06-18-2017, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myslateblue911 View Post
Tremelune - I have an 83' SC Coupe. I purchase the car last year and was told by the previous owner that one of the mods done to the car was lowering it to a Euro ride height. The stance seemed "just right". It had 16" Fuchs (6's & 7's) on it that had been polished (a look I did not prefer).

I just replaced those with 15" Fuchs (7's & 8's) with an RSR finish done by Harvey Weidman, shod with Toyo R1R (205/50/15 & 225/45/15).

While I am very pleased with the look of my refinished 15" Fuchs and the Toyo R1R's
There now appears to be more of a gap between the fender and the tire. This may just be a consequence of having a smaller wheel.

My question is driven more by aesthetics than anything else. I wish I would have measured the distance between the fender & the top of the tire before I removed my old set of wheels & tires.

Any idea on that?
here's how to measure height





stock for a RoW SC is 108+/-5mm & 16+/-5mm, which means that the low end of stock is 113mm & 11mm

when shorter tires are used the height remains constant as a & b & A & B all drop by the same amount, but the gap at the top grows w/ a shorter tire

your 16 were 25" tires your 15s are 23" tires, the 1" less at the top is what you are seeing.

you can drop the car by 25.4mm to go back to the original gap or more for less gap. this would put the front @ ~133mm & the rear ~-5 w/ some rake. You can go to 144 or even 160 but bump steer is an increasing issue as the height drops, a rack spacer will take you to ~144 w/ good results
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Old 06-18-2017, 02:37 PM
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as a guideline here is an old factory setup chart, I run my '76 C3, ~145 & 0 w/ a rack spacer on 25" 17s, when I had the original 15s w/ 205/50 & 225/50 it was lower than that but I can't find the exact specs any more, this was 40 yrs ago when I bought it. It was setup in Germany by a specialist shop. I remember that I couldn't get my shoes under the front spoiler lip though.
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Verburg View Post
here's how to measure height





stock for a RoW SC is 108+/-5mm & 16+/-5mm, which means that the low end of stock is 113mm & 11mm

when shorter tires are used the height remains constant as a & b & A & B all drop by the same amount, but the gap at the top grows w/ a shorter tire

your 16 were 25" tires your 15s are 23" tires, the 1" less at the top is what you are seeing.

you can drop the car by 25.4mm to go back to the original gap or more for less gap. this would put the front @ ~133mm & the rear ~-5 w/ some rake. You can go to 144 or even 160 but bump steer is an increasing issue as the height drops, a rack spacer will take you to ~144 w/ good results
Thanks Bill Verburg.... your answers are always thorough and precise. Thank you.
Old 06-18-2017, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myslateblue911 View Post
What is distance between the tire & the fender on a Euro ride height setup?
About this distance:

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Old 06-18-2017, 08:44 PM
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Take a look at period road tests and you'll see what the car actually looked like out of the factory. Here's the US special height from a Car & Driver review of a 78 SC, it's pretty nuts:



Here's an '84 C&D road test photo, so actually Euro height:



As always, Bill V has the correct info. strlj's photo looks correct. Bill Douglas's car and MIK911s cars are obviously slammed below proper height, which honestly, we all do.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:48 AM
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Matt, last pic is for sure no Euro-reference. Looks like a US car (see headlights and sidemarkers).

Pictures, especially pictures of cars in motion, are allways a dificult reference, as you never know what is causing to stance as it does in the picture (tilt? even underground? misbalanced? worn out chassi? fully loaded or not? etc.).

stick to technical advises (such as Bill posted). best one can do.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:04 AM
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