Euro WUR question

[SkiVT]

My 1983 911SC Euro was imported and, I believe, federalized by a PO based on a sticker in the engine bay. The Lambda and sensor were removed at some point. It now has SSIs, no cat, etc. The WUR as pictured has a hose running from the WUR to the accumulator. I think that line runs through the frequency valve (?), which I don't think should exist in in pure Euro. The wiring to the plug on that valve basically goes to nowhere. Also, the WUR number isn't visible (should be 089) as it was rubbed off at some point, so it's not 100% certain the correct WUR is present.

Questions:
- Does the existence of the hose from the top of the WUR to the accumulator impact anything absent the Lambda stuff?
- Is the WUR identifiable by any other means if those last 3 digits are not visible?

Based on my AFR readings, the mixture is not enriched significantly with added throttle. It basically goes from 15.8 at cruise to 15.0 WOT. As I track that down, I want to be sure I understand what may have been reversed or not from the federalize process.



Thanks

[javadog]

Your engine probably didn't have anything associated with an O2 sensor. ROW engines were without this for a long time. I don't recall what year you could order the option of a catalyst-equipped 911 in Germany, but I'm thinking it was in the mid-80's somewhere.

To start with, identify what engine type is in your car (930/xx) and then use that to identify which CIS components it should have. Then have a look at which components you actually have on the engine and go from there.

When the car was federalized, they might have done nothing to the engine (as that was a one-time option available to buyers in that era) of they may have done "who knows what?"

I'd suggest getting familiar will all of the components of a CIS system, so you know what you are looking at. There are a lot of them.

JR

[SkiVT]

The engine is a 930/10 and I removed the lambda box. The sensor was removd when the SSIs went on.

[boyt911sc]

SkiVT,

Contact this PP member (Wolds) from Ohio. A few years ago he bought an '83 SC Euro cabriolet that was federalized with almost the same FV (frequency valve) you have now. His first name is Warren and a very friendly fellow. He has one of the best tuned SC I've seen with an incredible gas mileage.

Could you look at the Bosch ID numbers of the following CIS components in your engine?
WUR......................0-438-140-???
FD.........................0-438-100-???
AAR.......................0-280-104-???
Dizzy.....................0-238-301-??? (plus some characters below)
AFM.......................0-438-120-??? (air flow meter)

Thanks for sharing.


Tony

[SkiVT]

Yes as soon as I am done my terrible round of golf.
Thanks

[SkiVT]

Wur - last 3 digits are not visible
FD - 438-100-077
AAR - 280-140-226
Dizzy - 237-301-009
AFM - not sure were to find the number

WUR picture and Dizzy picture.






Thanks

[Reiver]

I've an '83 Euro myself...as you know the WUR controls enrichment on the Euro's.

The proper Bosch# is 0438.140.089...the last three .089 indicate the Euro model. I can't read the last 3 digits on your WUR.....try rubbing some pencil lead etc. to bring out the numbers...almost looks like they were scrapped off.

I have an onboard AFR so I can monitor my fuel/air supply and set it where I like.

I also have SSI's.

I'll check my dizzy when I get the car off the 4 poster later on.

I se mine to run at about 14...14.5 when cruising....in the past, prior to having the WUR rebuilt any WOT would just lean the AFR up into the 15's.

My WUR has been rebuilt by Larry Fletcher at CIS Flowtech (the only Bosch auth. US rebuilder...he does them for Bosch Europe too...the key is he can get all of the factory parts like the small diaphragms etc.) commercial for Larry, great guy and excellent service. (he will do an exchange too, he has them on the shelf...call him if that works for you)

Anyway...now at WOT I am down in the 11.5 area and you can feel it seat of pants.

BTW, I'd also check your spark plugs as our higher compression ratio calls for a cooler plug than the US and that can lead to detonation issues.

You need a NGK BPR 9 es or equivalent.....not the US 7's.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by SkiVT

Wur - last 3 digits are not visible
FD - 438-100-077
AAR - 280-140-226
Dizzy - 237-301-009
AFM - not sure were to find the number

Thanks

SkiVT,

WUR...............check the resistance (Ohms). This will help identify whether US or Euro.
FD-077............this is for US spec. not Euro.

AAR-226..........this is for Euro spec.
Dizzy-009........this is for Euro spec.

You would need some CIS components like a FD (031/097), WUR (-089) that is vacuum assisted, TV (thermovalve), and a DV (decel valve).

Tony

[SkiVT]

The WUR resistance is a steady 36. There is a hose, I had always assumed is vacuum, from the WUR as seen in the first picture. The line heads to the thermo and then to the Decel, I believe (see pic) this path matches plumbing in other Euro pictures I have seen. So it seems I have an incorrect FD and a suspect WUR. This is all great learning so thanks for all the information so far.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by SkiVT

The WUR resistance is a steady 36. There is a hose, I had always assumed is vacuum, from the WUR as seen in the first picture. The line heads to the thermo and then to the Decel, I believe (see pic) this path matches plumbing in other Euro pictures I have seen. So it seems I have an incorrect FD and a suspect WUR. This is all great learning so thanks for all the information so far.

SkiVT,

You already have a decel valve and thermotime valve as shown in the above picture. So look for the correct WUR-089 and a non-lambda FD like -031 or -097. The FV attached to your WUR has to be removed or omitted. Are you able to start and run the motor? Keep us posted.

Tony

[SkiVT]

Tony, this is the only 911 I have driven but it runs very well. No issues with warm up or idle. Acceleration seems strong until close to peak when it seems to fall a little short. My simple brain says without enough enrichment, I am leaving some power off the table.

Are you saying the resistance measured rules out the WUR from being an 089? I ask because it looks like an 089 with the vacuum and atmoshere outlets.

Thanks

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by SkiVT

Tony, this is the only 911 I have driven but it runs very well. No issues with warm up or idle. Acceleration seems strong until close to peak when it seems to fall a little short. My simple brain says without enough enrichment, I am leaving some power off the table.

Are you saying the resistance measured rules out the WUR from being an 089? I ask because it looks like an 089 with the vacuum and atmoshere outlets.

Thanks

SkiVT,

There are several Bosch WUR's (0-438-140-xxx) that exactly look like -089 from the outside. Identical external appearance but works and operates differently. That's the reason Bosch stamped them for identification. WUR-045, -069, and -089 used in 911SC engines have identical appearance but have a different fuel pressure profiles and a dozen others used in 911 turbo, Volvo, Saab, MB, BMW, Ferrari, etc.

If the engine runs great and you are satisfied with the performance, I will leave it for now. Or have it dyno tested.

Tony

[Reiver]

Originally Posted by SkiVT

Tony, this is the only 911 I have driven but it runs very well. No issues with warm up or idle. Acceleration seems strong until close to peak when it seems to fall a little short. My simple brain says without enough enrichment, I am leaving some power off the table.

Are you saying the resistance measured rules out the WUR from being an 089? I ask because it looks like an 089 with the vacuum and atmoshere outlets.

Thanks

If you are in the 15's at WOT you are leaving HP on the table at any rpm. There is a vacuum or WUR issue.....or a fuel delivery issue, but I doubt that if it runs strong thru the rpm scale.
The problem of and AFR in the 15's at WOT and a 9.8-1 compression are pretty obvious.

[SkiVT]

I am pursuing the WUR. I should have access to an 089 in a week or so. I also need to do further testing on the existing WUR before deciding what to do, if anything.

Thanks for your thoughts and experience, Reiver.

[SkiVT]

To close out this post:

I think my situation may apply to less than 1% of owners but I learned a lot so will share. The original owner moved to the USA and imported the car with him in the mid 90’s. It was federalized at that time. Federalizing included changing the FD from a euro 097 to a US 077, changing the euro 089 WUR to an unidentifiable WUR (last 3 digits are missing), adding an enrichment injector plumbed off the WUR, a lambda brain (wired to the enrichment injector), adding an O2 sensor, and adding a cat. The original owner described the car’s power/performance after these changes as “like a neutered dog” compared to factory.

The second owner installed SSI with a Dansk muffler, removed the O2 sensor, and disconnected all lambda wiring. While the car ran reliably, it had no enrichment on acceleration, seemed to underperform, and was difficult to troubleshoot with mismatched or unidentifiable components.

I decided to install the correct 089 WUR and correct 097 FD. Big thanks to Tony for refreshing the euro components for me. The car now runs way better with stronger acceleration, etc.