Meaning Of Original And Restored

[YTNUKLR]

I see this all the time in ads: "Original. Never restored." Then you ask if it has original paint/interior and they reply, "No." What do "original" and "restored" constitute? Of course the car is original if it is a real car, but who would make a replica 911? When does original cross the line to being restored. I happen to think it depends on whether the paint is original, but that's my 2c. Will someone please elaborate? Thanks

[TomTurtle]

I think "original" assumes by the following proposed definitions that it was never restored.

To my mind, "original" means all original as it rolled of the assembly line; i.e. original paint and all options/parts as listed on the window sticker. All vins match and all options are on the car as listed on the sticker under the front hood. Also can be interpreted that the car has not been in any accidents, but this should be confirmed/discussed.

I think "restored" (generally interpreted as an "older" car) means re-painted and repaired to bring it as close to possible to "original" condition; i.e. use of the correct paint color and new/restored original equipment (OE). The context is that of taking an older, time worn car and making it look like new.

Any other interpretations from you PCA concours judges?

[Chuck Moreland]

If your reading a classified, here is the translation -

"Original" - The car's oil has never been changed, as installed by the factory

"Restored" - The owner covered up some rust holes with bondo then hit it with spray paint that sorta matches

[john70t]

There's also no definition for "tune-up" and "engine rebuild". Transmissions are covered by Cal legal repair definition I believe.

[Zeke]

Original=unmolested. Some minor cosmetic repairs forgiven. Mechanicals are factory spec for the year. Everything is there.
Restored=put back to original specs. Anything else is refurbishnent. The terms have lost their meaning over time.

These definitions loosely taken from Keith Martin, editor of Sports Car Market, renowned appraiser and gereral pundit.

[pwd72s]

These definitions make me think my car is a POS! Guess I'll just hang on to it...

[Ian Morton]

I believe "restored" means it had some body repairs due to corrosion.
If an early 911 has never rusted since new but had a respray due patina/chippings, it can be considered as "original" as long the new paint overlay is enamal (from same manufacturer), not 2 pack. If it was resprayed in other than enamal, well.....

[speeder]

Huh? So only rusted cars can be restored?? OK. Don't know what you mean by "early" 911s, but until the late '80s the cars were painted w/ lacquer, not enamel, and all metallic cars have always been "2 pack", base+clear. Other than that, I guess I agree w/ you. (As usual).

Bottom line is that descriptions in ads are generally meaningless w/o some conversation, pictures, and eventually putting your hands on said heap. Part of the confusion of terms is due to outright deception, but a lot is ignorance. The average person has no idea what "mint", "restored", "rebuilt", etc., really mean. I have called ads for cars w/ "rebuilt" engines that just had some routine repairs made. And the person had no idea WTF the term even meant.

I have such an aversion to imprecise language in general that when I advertise something really nice, I accurately describe it as "close to mint", etc., and nobody calls!

[pwd72s]

Denis? All early 911's were laquer? Here's a link you may like to read...
http://d240157.u39.zeonhost.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=353&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

[HawgRyder]

You have to be careful of the old "2 tool rebuild" - that's a steam jenny and a spray can!
Have seen a lot of them in my travels.
Bob

[speeder]

Paul, That's a very interesting thread, I wish I was a member of that board because I have some additional Glasurite questions for that guy. Great info from a true expert, but I am still not clear as to what type of paint the 30 yrs. ago, (or 20 yrs. ago), Glaso was(?) In that thread, you were the only one to refer to the old paint as "enamel".

I was under the impresion that the cars were painted w/ lacquer until approx. 20 yrs. ago, could be wrong. (Wouldn't be the first time). I am well aware of the current types of paint being used.

Of course you would not want to do paintwork on your car unless it became neccesary, it would no longer be "original", strictly speaking. Of course these terms have no meaning to someone who desires precision and universality in language, (all english speakers being "on the same page" w/ terms), that is the point of this thread. The "only rusty cars can be considered restored" angle had me tilting my head like a dog.

[andyjboy]

From "A Restorer's Guide to Authenticity" :

"Nearly all cars produced by Porsche after the 1955 model year were finished in enamel paint, which was baked following application. An exception to this lies in the metallic paints used from 1966 through 1969, which were lacquer. A so-called "two coat process" enamel paint replaced this lacquer from 1970 through 1973"


Andy
'69 911E------------>R

[Bobboloo]

Acrylic Urethane is a form of enamel. I believe "enamel" is not a particular mixture but just refers to a paint being hard, glossy and durable.