Tilting Problem
 

Today as I was driving home from work I noticed that my steering wheel was oriented approximatelly 15 degrees off counterclockwise from where it normally is. I got home and checked the tire pressures and all were ok. I then noticed, while checking the tires, that one side of the car is approximately 1/2 inch lower (both front and rear) than the other side. Any ideas as to what may have caused this sudden tilting in the height of the car?. This weekend I an going to check to see if any of the wheel adjustment bolts are loose, but any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks

Ruben911
1976 911 2.7L

I have seen a shock which has locked up in an upward position push down the car on the opposite side. Bounce on each corner and see if you have a locked up shock.

Or a snapped torsion bar.

Thanks for the reply. I just looked under the rear left wheel well and saw what may be causing my problem. The part that attaches the stabilizer bar to the chassis sheared the piece off the chassis which was holding it in place. I took a picture but don't know how to post. Is there a place I can find the instruction for posting the picture. I want to know if anyone has experienced this phenomena and how they were able to fix it. Also, is there a problem with driving the car until I can get it fixed. Thanks

Rueben,
Run a search on "broken rear swaybar mount" and I think you will find all the answers you need.
Good luck.

A broken swaybar mount won't effect the steering wheel. I've had the rear one bust or come undone a few times and it isn't even obvious unless you are turning hard.
-Chris

Thanks all for the reply. I think the sway bar support is the culprit. The steering wheel is off centered because the car is tilting and this is causing a mis-salignment. I have tried to attach a picture. Hope it works. It looks like I will have to find a weld shop to reweld the sheared bracket. Thanks

With the swaybar disconnected/broken/removed the car should sit level. Unless the car is cornering, there should be no load on the swaybars and disconnecting them should not effect the tilt of the car. Put another way, sway bars do not support the car.
I would thoroughly investigate the front suspension before I drove the car anymore. I might suggest that you have a mechanic look at it.
-Chris

Unless of course ride height was adjusted without the sway bars connected. If any suspension work was done, and the final adjustments were done with the sway bars connected, the ride height could be dependent on the opposite side. This would definitely be the wrong way to do it but, if suspension work was done by someone that didn’t know any better, it would definitely explain the broken mount and the tilting.

Have the mount repaired and then work on adjusting the suspension. My guess is that with the sway bars disconnected the ride height (tilt) will still be wrong. Have the car properly corner balanced and aligned if you are not comfortable w/ checking it out yourself. If you do it yourself, still have the car corner balanced and aligned when you are done. Good luck!

My guess is that the swaybar mount has probably been broken for a while.

It’s hard to tell in a picture but that torn metal seems awful shiny to have been torn very long. It looks like a fresh break to me.

Anyone "borrowed" your car lately? Do you sleep-walk? Are you a heavy drinker?

Just seems to be a coincidence that the swaybar is broken and the suspension is sagging.

The broken swaybar mount won't make the car sag, but it may be a sign that something "happened" to the suspension on that side.

Blown shock and/or broken torsion bar is my guess.

Check the height adjuster for the front torsion bar. often times they are hit, and break out of the cross-member so that they no longer anchor the front torsion bar.

Thanks for all the replies. I will lift the car this weekend and try to investigate what may have gone wrong. In looking at the rear driver side wheel, I can tell that it sits about 1/4 inch farther forward on the wheel well than the rear passenger side. It may be that one of the alignment bolts loosened up and this may have put stress on the sway bar bracket. Anyhow, I will look at this and at other possibilities. I know that about a month ago I had checked the ride height all around and that it was ok. Thanks

Quick question. Can I remove the rear stabilizer bar and drive the car without doing any damage to the car. I figure it is better if I remove it to avoid more damage to the bracket. What are some of the negatives of driving the car without the bar. It is my daily driver so I hope I can drive it until I can take care of the problem. Thanks

I drove mine for six months with no rear swaybar. To be honest, I could barely tell a difference, but I was also babying it because I was afraid. :)

The "event" that broke my swaybar mount was a driver's ed event. I think the mounts just eventually give way with the stress that's put on them. I'm just glad I got to it before the other side went and my car tripped over itself.

The torn steel looks nasty, but its not a major issue.

You can drive the car safely without the rear sway - just don't drive at anything approaching qualifying pace! The car will have more tendency to oversteer.

Suggest you remove the sway bar if it will be a while before you have the mount replaced. Dont want anything to break loose and drag [although its hard to see how this could happen, it might!].

I had a new sway mount welded in late last year for around $250, and mine was complicated by extra support members to reinforce the mount point. The updated Porsche part is around $75 from memory.

I drove my car without any swaybars for about a year (including AutoX). They improve stability but are not necessary for ordinary driving.

Thanks all, I will remove the sway bar this weekend and check the suspension again to see if it has anything to do with the tilting. I will start inquiring about replacement bracket/welding to correct the problem. Thanks again, and I'll keep you posted of what I find out.

Ruben
1976 911 2.7 L

I'm slowly learning the basic stuff that others seem to know quite well. My offroad excursion did exactly what Tyson described. Pushed the front sway bar adjuster right out of the cross member. Check it out. There is a bolt, about 3" long at the rear end of each front control arm, that should be caged in the aluminum crossmember. Make sure that bolt is pressing tight against the round pad at the top. If not, that's your problem.

Ok Guys, I couldn't wait so I removed the sway bar and confirmed what others had said; the 1/2 inch tilting is still present after driving around the block.

Superman, I checked to make sure the front height adjustment bolts are pressing tight against the round pad. They are and the bolt heights seem to be symetrical.

How do I check to see if it is a snapped torsion bar or a frozen shock absorber?

Thanks

It would seem to me that if a front torsion bar were snapped, then the adjusting bolts would not be pressing tight against the pads. As suggested above, sit on the corners of the car. If a shock were frozen, the suspension would be very stiff on that corner.

My idea of a quick and dirty way to tell if the problem is from or rear is to jack up each side of the car, one side at a time, so it barely lifts both wheels and measure the fender heights at the front and rear. look and see if the front or rear compress more on the bad side. That should tell you which end is having the problem.

BTW, driving really hard without the rear antiroll bar can be entertaining. I always wondered how much the inside front was picking up. :)


Wayne

Wayne, Just some clarifications on the aforementioned procedure. I take it I have to jack up one side of the car until the wheels just clear the floor. How do I measure the fender heigths? is it from the floor to the fender lip, and on the same side of the car that is being jacked up or the opposite side? Also, I take it that what I'm looking for is for one of the heigts to be off from the others. Thanks

Wait a minute !!!....

Did anyone notice Reuben saying that the rear wheel sits further forward on one side of the car compared to it's companion on the other side ??

--Is the wheelbase the same on both sides?? ----

Wil Ferch ---eek !

Wil, I raised the rear of the car and took the wheels off. I found out that one of the alignment bolts (the one closer to the brake caliper) was loose on the rear driver side suspension arm (same side where the sway bar bracket broke). I am not sure if this is the problem but I re-tightened it and compared some of the dimensions against the passenger side rear dimensions. They appear to be close. I will mount the wheels tomorrow ant take her for a spin to see if it makes a difference.

Ruben

I think that requiring the wheelbase to be identical to the naked eye is a bit anal. How else are you supposed to get the correct quantity of wedge dialed in for all of them there left turns?http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/wat5.gif


Jeeze, that was an important detail. Seriously though. With the adjuster coming loose you HAVE to have the car aligned and corner balanced. You can't eyeball it.


Wayne

Here is some additional info after having adjusted and tightened the loose alignment bolt (I adjusted it to be symmetrical with the other side). The problem still persists after having driven the car this morning. Let me know if this points to any potential root cause.

1) When I raised the rear of the car by placing the jack underneath the center of the engine case, the left (driver side) torsion bar cover cleared one of the equally extended jack stands, whereas it required another 1/2 inch of lift to clear the jack stand for the rear driver side torsion bar. The floor is level.

2) When the car is up on the jack stands the driver side suspension is 1/4 inch lower than the passenger side suspension (measured from center of brake disc to upper fender lip.

3) There is oil that has been leaking from the thermostat (I replaced an oil line recently when I added SSIs) and is covering the torsion bar cover with oil. I will be re-tightening this now. Don't know if oil can get in and affect torsion bar.

4) About a month ago I recall changing lanes in a road that was under construction an taking a approximately 3" drop at speed. I did not think it was a big deal then. This may have caused the sway bar bracket to shear and possibly the torsion bar to slip or break.

My next step is to remove the rear torsion bars and inspect. Any other ideas are appreciated.

Thanks

Ruben

Why would you need to remove the torsion bars? If they are broken the car will have a severe height difference and the suspension on the affected wheel will be on the bump stop. 1/4" difference is well within Porsche 10mm tolerance. What you need to do is take the car to a good alignment shop. If the rear suspension is misaligned, the steering wheel will not be central. One or so hours of labor at the alignment shop will determine the EXACT problem rather than "looking" for non-existant faults.

This is very disconcerting, no? The torsion bar extensions are different heights? Combine this with:

I think it's not a bad idea to take it to an alignment shop as suggested above.

Oil on the torsion bar shouldn't cause any problems, in fact it can help inhibit corrosion. I don't think it's a snapped torsion bar as the car would sit against the stops on that side (or at least EASILY hit the stop on that side). Not much in new ideas but maybe helping to rule out some existing ones?

Good luck!